Is that Gavage Nuisance in the bottom picture?
Gruesome newsom
Its funny how people act as if kamala lost because she supported genocide
No lol, leftists hold miniscule power in electorate, kamala lost because she ran a shitty campaign and neo liberal economics will only make things worse for incumbent.
Some factors for losing:
- People were already salty that Biden even decided to run again, and then he forced a different candidate upon the voters.
- Status quo
- Woman
- Not white
- Zionism apologist
- Obviously dumb strategy to ditch the “weird” name calling, and placate the right.
- I not sure what to call it, but there is definitely an issue in our country of picking the “popular kid”, or “cool kid”
Her loss was a combination of many factors, including the support of genocidal Zionism. Do not ignore it.
MAGA are so soft, the “weird” moniker for their god emperor was one of the few things that was working well
I not sure what to call it, but there is definitely an issue in our country of picking the “popular kid”, or “cool kid”
Charisma matters more than it should.
neo libs must choose… either there is not enough progressives to demand a progressive candidate so they are not a large enough block to have changed the outcome OR they are large enough bloc to demand progressive cannidate and the democrats ignoring them cost them the election.
and they always pivot talking points
Schrodinger’s Left: small enough for Dems to ignore, large enough to make Dems lose
The enemy is both strong and weak.
There’s a reason actual leftists refer to these losers as “social fascists”
Liberals vastly prefer fascism to actual justice.
And then they get mad when you call it out with documentation, even directly quoting their political idols and their own words about what they support.
They just want the fascism done quietly in blue color than loudly in red.
It’s almost like they’re fascist lite…
It’s almost like Democrats are 2016 Republicans, which were fascist light…
I’m happy to see more progressives running but as a recent example, Madami, the Dems would have rather he lost than win even if it meant electing Trump. They’re the ones that put themselves in this position, now us.
They are addicted to the AIPAC tit
They spent millions to keep him out, they hate winning if it means the rich lose $100.
Funny, that works just as well in reverse: If “the left” is big enough that all the posturing about not voting for the lesser evil, and the moral purity BS caused Trump to win, they are responsible for untold horrors simply because they want to grand stand. If they aren’t big enough, they’re irrelevant anyway, so why would anyone care?
actully, it specifically CAN’T work the other way
If the left is small, then it was rightly ignored, but can’t be blamed. If it’s large, then it could be blamed, had it not been ignored. What you can’t do is both ignore it and then blame it.
This isn’t feudalism, it’s not the job of the peasants to mollify the Lord, getting votes is a politician’s job. Blaming the electorate for your loss is an abrogation of responsibility.
I voted for Kamala, but I was pissed we didn’t have a fucking primary. If we had a primary, we might have gotten Bernie on the ballot, or Elizabeth Warren, or Butegig, or anyone else. But instead Biden claimed to be running, then dropped out at the last minute so opps no time for primaries. I’m salty as hell that democrats didn’t get a choice. It felt deliberate and coordinated.
Whoopie, the man who promised to be one term ran for another just long enough to ensure no one actually got a say in who to run.
Certainly a mistake from the people who argued in court and won with it that they don’t have to have honest primaries.
Kamala lost because it was obvious from the beginning that she was a bad candidate whose only hope of becoming President was to be parachuted into the role via the 25th Amendment once Biden’s mental state truly deteriorated. Unfortunately for her and the DNC, Biden’s condition declined right as a key presidential debate rolled around, and his declining cognitive health became so utterly apparent that not even Reddit’s tyrannical cabal of power mods could cover it up anymore.
Before that debate, even merely suggesting that Biden was senile would have gotten you labelled a Nazi and banned from at least a dozen subreddits.
THAT is why she lost to a convicted felon.
Did you watch the debates between Biden and Trump. Biden was far more articulate and sane than trump, and it still wasn’t enough.
Both of them were clearly demented. Trump just making removed up and Biden interrupting him to mumble incoherently, ending in “We Beat Medicaid!”
Nah he was just quiet senile instead of loud senile. I’ve had patients that are rather agreeable despite low cognitive function. They don’t wind up in the hospital as much and get discharged quicker because the agreeableness means they can accept home caregivers more safely, but they very much still need assistance with decision making. He wasn’t more coherent per se, just more able to cooperate with his handlers. Ignoring morality (a distressingly common occurrence throughout the history of humanity) is it preferable to have a leader who accepts control of the oligarchs more placidly or more chaotically? I don’t speak to my parents anymore for a variety of reasons (including politics) but one tiny spark of something they did get right was that trump is slightly harder to keep under control, and is accelerating the destruction of our broken political system. We ultimately just differed in opinion on whether the coming system is more likely to be better or worse.
Sure, but republicans don’t care if their candidate is sane (obviously). Democrats do.
Who said they were going to beat medicare and had an eyeball get bloody on stage?
Both were senile racist bastards, one has always been incoherent, one was more recently incoherent.
Also I don’t think voters appreciated having her shoved in at the last minute.
The Gaza issue seems to have been pretty big
America doesn’t have a left wing. America has a right wing and an extreme right wing. The closest to an actual leftist that America has is Mamdani, and America’s so-called left wing politicians tried their best to make him look evil.
Don’t forget Bernie and AOC.
It’s about time America stops electing people who need to be in elder care homes as their politicians.
I agree with the age issues, but america needs politicians with integrity. Not words but a track record demonstrating integrity. Few fit that bill
“No new wars” was a trump slogan, leftists aren’t the only ones against the genocide, pretty much everyone who doesn’t have ties with israel was pissed with US involvement.
She lost because the average voter votes for whatever name they’ve heard before.
she was a candidate for 100 days leading up to the election, against a former president that had been campaigning non stop for
68 years at the point she joined the race. She was fucked over and thrown under a bus.She had good momentum at the start with the brat summer thing and calling conservatives weird and then, very suddenly, she threw it all in the trash and started running around with Liz Cheney. They saw her amping up the progressives and needed to put a stop to it and whether it was her idea or not she jumped in there with all her energy.
She could have won, she didn’t lose by much, but she desperately spent the last month or two making sure that everyone knew she would rather lean conservative than progressive.
I felt like she was a token black women as a VP, and not allowed to be any more than that. As much as the dems espouse equality its still a rich white man who is against universal healthcare running things.
no, she lost because 1/3 of Americans failed to vote.
Which wouldn’t have happened if she ran a good campaign.
Show me a good campaign that accepts AIPAC money. I want to know what you think a capable genocide supporting Democrat looks like.
what makes you think that?
they didn’t all protest the vote. I would say most of them just didn’t vote because they couldn’t be bothered.
however, enough of the protest votes would have swung the election in her favor.
Had they not lost the forest through the trees, we’d have manageable problems right now.
edit: hate on me all you want, but you know I’m right.
however, enough of the protest votes would have swung the election in her favor.
I have never seen a single piece of data to back up a claim like that. If you have, I’d love to see it
they didn’t all protest the vote. I would say most of them just didn’t vote because they couldn’t be bothered.
I would guess this is true, but this is a failure of the candidate, not the electorate. In a country without mandatory voting or a national holiday for elections, motivating your base is extremely important, especially when you base is working class people who are less likely to be able to take time off to vote. Even ignoring her centrist economic platform and genocide support, her strategy was explicitly to target disaffected Republicans instead of energizing her own base, and that strategy failed. Kamala and the incompetent consultants she surrounded herself with own this loss, and whining about the voters won’t change that.
In other words, she lost because she was a Limousine Liberal.
Honestly, I’m not even sure that’s the right term for it. She was to the right of most centrist liberals on Gaza, immigration, and even guns.
The turnout was actually rather high by historical standards. A portion of the population not voting is just a constant of elections. You can’t blame your loss on something that happens every election. And worse, in recent elections, Democrats do WORSE when turnout is higher. If turnout were higher, Kamala would have lost even worse.
I can easily blame lazy shitheads for doing nothing to stop fascism.
Watch me.
DNC will throw an election before moving to the left.
As we’ve seen, repeatedly.
“Leftists” that were saying this knowingly support trump. They’re accelrrationist who want conditions to get so bad that their ideas actually seem good.
Harris was a good candidate her platform was progressive and pragmatic. There was very very little to complain about with her. Thats why the right and “left” had to work extra hard to undermine her. Look at how hard all the .ml on this site were working pre election to convince people not to vote. It was insane, any post that was positive about biden or Harris of waltz was met with a barrage of insane accusation and misinfo.
But i dont think the left undermining dems was a deciding factor. I think it was rights pro trump narrative that was way to strong. Trump dominated every media space. If you were in male spaces pro trump quips were fucking everywhere you’d be watching a YouTuber who was non political for 10years then suddenly he would say something like “but trumps economy was damn good” or something about biden beinf asleep at the wheel. That stuff influences voters more than political ads and old media celebs.
They’re accelrrationist who want conditions to get so bad that their ideas actually seem good.
I’ve seen this claim made a few times before, and it’s never accompanied by a shred of evidence.
Have you ever been to a tankie instance here on lemmy? You should try and broaden your horizons, because it sounds like you are arguing from ignorance.
LOL, the sole one single point I made in my post is that I only ever see assertions without evidence, and your response is a bit of handwaving and an ad hominem. Thanks for demonstrating my point so perfectly.
What evidence would you like?
Literally anything other than bad faith conspiracy-theory assertions, please.
There was very very little to complain about with her.
- Promising full military support to a settler colony currently committing a genocide using US weapons
- Campaigning with fucking Cheneys and pandering to fascists
- Not promising any actual support for trans people, stopping at “I will follow the law”
- Abandoning universal healthcare push
- Not being actually voted on by anyone, instead just appointed by DNC
- Most importantly: she’s a neolib, and the working class has been suffering materially due to neolib policies for the past 50 years, people want change
There is a shitton to complain about her. If you are knowingly pushing the idea she was a good candidate you’re a genocide enabler.
I would’ve voted for her if I was in the US (because the alternative is slightly worse in many ways). But, moral qualms aside, it’s crazy to just shove a status-quo establishment neoliberal and expect people who are surviving paycheck-to-paycheck due to that very ideology to be excited about it.
Well not voting for her and burning Gaza sure taught them…
Elections are not the time and place for democracy, that’s some tankie removed. If you want to make your voice heard, do it any other time. Not during elections. It’s just not right.
I swear to god, the actual argument is so close I ate the onion at first.
Ahh yes, now is not the time to discuss about school shootings. Let’s wait until things calm down. Then things never calm down and it’s the next one. Oh sorry, I got your argument confused withe another, my bad.
Wow. I never knew it was possible to be this wrong. Thank you for this unique experience.
Imagine a group thinking Palestine swung the needle at all on US elections. ROFL…
That is getting close to “flat earth” level of denial.
Kamela ran a horrible, lame, corporate platform.
Kamela ran a horrible, lame, corporate platform.
And in a reasonable world this wouldn’t have mattered. People are unreasonable.
Politics has always been a popularity contest? Did you not learn this in your grade school student council elections? You’re whining about human nature. People need to be inspired. They don’t give a removed about someone’s Senate voting record.
So we’re just going to hash this out every single day for the next 2 years, huh?
Edit: I do find it interesting how many replies to this comment are vague enough that you can’t determine which side of this argument they’re on, but I guess I did start it myself.
The older I get the more relevant this scene from ‘Life Of Brian’ becomes.
Ah yes the leftists who complain and cry at the federal election but take no interest in primaries, or joining the party or volunteering for their preferred candidate. American leftists just wanna sit on their ass and be handed a candidate, so that’s what you get.
Last one you guys didnt take part in so they picked the old white man, when you complained they gave you an educated black woman and you “leftists” went “eeew not that” while cheering for Bernie, another ancient white man.
You guys are a removed show of contradiction, removed slinging and infighting because nobody is good enough to be an ally anymore. This is why I blame all of you for Trump, the American right and the left. You guys suck, and the rest of the leftists in sane countries know it
Pretty sure there’s core differences between Biden and Bernie.
“Whaat? You mean some people DON’T vote by race and gender??”
Delusions of a confused Liberal.
Slightly better than fascist is a very low bar, and most of them aren’t clearing it.
The bar is ‘are they itching to exterminate PoC/LGBT+ people’, and Green MAGA decided they want their own bar instead and will throw away those vulnerable minorities to satisfy their own morality cocksucking.
Let’s flip that over.
Leftists, you have two years to put forth an incredibly well-funded candidate that’s more palatable to the ultra-rich, corporate sponsors, left, and the right than the DNC/RNC candidates. You need more than 50% by a decent margin because they’re not going to let you in, you need half the boomers and genexers and youngbloods out there to write in a name.
OR
Once again, you’ll be here figuring out weather you’d rather vote for DNC or not at all and let RNC take us for another ride.
Ah, yes, the DNC, famous for having worked out so well in steering the party away from being nigh-indistinguishable from their main opposition. An excellent position from which to mock those dissatisfied with, let me check my notes, ah yes, how the DNC itself shat the bed in the last elections.
So you want me to vote for the RNC? You’re throwing out mixed signals here. You… happy wither where we are?
No, you want to play this dumb game of Schröndinger’s leftists, where we are simultaneously a group too small to merit making any concessions to, yet also such a massive force that our not voting for Dems apparently decides elections all on their own, thus fair grounds to single out for extra scolding this go around of it. I’m just pointing out the DNC leadership is suspiciously holding pistols of the same caliber as the weapons that put those nice holes in their feet. We got here with them insisting they know what their constituents really want better than even the constituents themselves do, and it worked out swimmingly for them the last go of it.
I’m calling you out specifically for engaging in such stupid and disingenuous activity with your nonsensical flip. The DNC are not the last bastion of political genius in this country, and managing to lose the last election should be an indictment of their strategies and platforms employed. Going to the right to become the GOP-lite didn’t work, so obviously, the solution is to browbeat leftists and whip out some non sequitur about them raising their own candidate with the funds to beat the entrenched political establishment, rather than maybe considering for even a fraction of a second that the DNC’s own strategies and their tendency to cave and give the GOP everything they want on a platter while also gaslighting constituents about key factors like how well the economy is doing might have a tiny bit to do with their inability to win elections or get policy pushed through.
But yes, it’s the leftist who have ruined everything by not voting for Kamala last go of it. Just a thought, but if any single group is so powerful as to singlehandedly decide the outcome of national elections like the blue MAGA brigade has been whining about leftists doing on here since the elections finished, wouldn’t it make a bit more sense to actually listen to those people and throw them a bone on occasion? But no, it’s clearly the leftists fault for not waiting their turn when Kamala had seniority in the party, and they need to be punished and ridiculed further, even if it costs the Democrats more elections.
I didn’t say any of that
I said
Leftists, you have two years to put forth an incredibly well-funded candidate that’s more palatable to the ultra-rich, corporate sponsors, left, and the right than the DNC/RNC candidates. You need more than 50% by a decent margin because they’re not going to let you in, you need half the boomers and genexers and youngbloods out there to write in a name.
OR
Once again, you’ll be here figuring out weather you’d rather vote for DNC or not at all and let RNC take us for another ride.
Tell me where I went wrong specifically
I’m sorry to learn your inability to parse meaning from text extends to even text you yourself wrote. Maybe you should seek treatment.
The text you quoted essentially absolves the Democrats and DNC of all responsibility, placing the onus on leftists to either put together someone with enough money and backing to displace the entrenched political parties who dominate our politics, or shut up and take whatever is offered by the DNC lest they become the new whipping boy, yet again. You’re already gearing up to blame leftists for the DNC tossing the next election, and you don’t even know who their candidates will be, or what platform they will run on. 2028 could be the corpse of Nancy Pelosi running on how mean people are to Israel, and shouldn’t we let them just massacre a bit more to vent some stress, and you’ve already laid the groundwork to blame leftists if they don’t fall in line to vote for the DNC with your asinine “flip” or the original image, which conveniently absolves the DNC of any responsibility for their own repeated failures to win elections.
look at that, a wild block has appeared! Please enjoy the rest of your life.
Look at that, you’re just like MAGA!
You’re getting downvoted but you’re seeing the big picture.
The way elections work now, Democrats know they don’t have to cater to coastal cities. They got the big EC votes in the bag as long as they pay minimal lip service
Not so much because “vote blue no matter who”, moreso “republicans are verifiably, objectively evil and the system is rigged to prevent a third party from succeeding, so this is the only choice”.
No, the real battle is the purple states.
When you consider the current media landscape (and mainly the fact that nearly all local and national broadcast, and print media, and major social media, is owned by pedos or pedo sympathizers), I sincerely do not think that a progressive message will be able to penetrate that information bubble deep enough to get the state.
So they gotta cast a net that appeals to a majority of those voters.
Which is probably not possible with a PoC or any body who sits to pee, which is another problem all together.
This is all also assuming a free and fair election, which I’m having more doubts on every day.
It’s an ml instance. The downvotes are the only way you know you’re getting it right. ;)
If there is a fair and free election, it will be because the current administration has failed to corrupt the system, which is a fleeting chance at best
Harris chose to lose the most winnable election in history because Democrats know they can punish voters for being disloyal simply by allowing Republicans to win. If you demand too much from Democrats they will throw the election. It’s essentially a hostage situation, you must give unconditional support to the Good Cop or the Bad Cop will beat you to death. You don’t want the Bad Cop, do you?
If we don’t abolish this system we’re all going to die.
No matter how it might appear, the DNC didn’t fucking throw the election. Jesus Christ, who upvotes this removed?
Terminally online leftists need to get out and touch grass. No party will ever pander to you because not only is your bloc essentially nonexistent in the US, but you literally have no fucking idea how any of this removed actually works in real life.
If you think that the Democratic party is losing elections on purpose as a “removed you” to voters, you are delusionally stupid.
They refuse to campaign on popular policies even when it increases their chances of losing because it doing otherwise would anger their donors. They know it might cause them to lose. It’s purposeful. What else do you call that?
The only other reasonable explanation is that they’re too stupid and don’t know how to win elections.
If you think that the Democratic party are stupid, you are delusional.
I doubt it. Trump got those votes regardless of what Harris could’ve done.
People want to be openly racist and homophobic.
The reason Harris lost is because people who voted for Biden in 2020 stayed home and because fewer young people voted than in previous elections, not because they voted for Trump. Democratic turnout fell by 2 million votes.
Would it have made a difference and out weighed the racism votes? After brexiit, I’ll n never underestimate the power of hate.
By the numbers, yes. Trump’s turnout increased by 1 million from 2020 whereas Democrats decreased by 2 million, and the loss of Democrat turnout was what pushed Trump over the edge. He still only got 49.9% of the vote, after all.
But it isn’t the amount of votes, it’s the states that are won/lost. I’m not from US and I know that…
It would have made a difference in Michigan specifically. He won by 80 thousand votes.
Only a moron would have looked at the two options we had and not picked Harris.
Was she a good candidate? Actually yes if you look at her Senate voting history. She was closer to Sanders than any other senator. She also, as VP, supported investigating Israel so they could bypass the law requiring us to give support.
Did she run a good campaign? Absolutely not. But, she basically had no time to actually run one. She needed money, fast, so she softened her stance on some things to secure it.
Was it a bad move? Yes. Was it a bad enough move to let Donald “I’m going to be a dictator on day one and you’ll never have to vote again” Trump win? Absolutely not.
Are you seriously citing Senate voting history for what makes a good candidate? This is why liberals lose. They simply don’t have the sauce.
Do you think you’re going to be able to reason with someone who literally just said that the Democrats threw the election on purpose because online leftists “demanded too much”?
Do online leftists hold any significant number?
OK, but she didn’t have time to run a better campaign because a lot of influential people (Harris included) in the Democratic party decided it was better to hide Biden’s deteriorating condition than confront it.
Does this seem like the actions of a party that genuinely considers Trump an existential threat?
Does it matter? By voting 3rd party or abstaining you didn’t hurt the DNC. It hurt everyone else in the country and in other countries we provided aid to. Cuba and Venezuela too.
The presidential election isn’t the time for protest voting when the opposition is literally telling you that you won’t ever get to vote again.
You want to hurt the DNC? Do it in the primaries.
Does this seem like the actions of a party that genuinely considers Trump an existential threat?
Does it matter?
OK, so we’re gonna quibble over 3rd party voters again, and just dismiss the fact that DNC leadership doesn’t take this seriously. Great.
So do you think abstaining or protest voting 3rd party made them take it seriously? Did they change their tune when they lost? Do you honestly think the country is better for Trump beating Harris?
I’m not saying the DNC is flawless; I think it needs to go down in flames. But I’m also not stupid and understand the concept of prioritization.
The only way to actually reform the DNC is to elect an outsider even if they are more likely to lose the general election.
Elect an outsider in the primaries, right?
Harris chose to lose the most winnable election in history
Dems already shat the bed in 2022, handing Republicans a narrow majority in the House because they refused to pursue Congressional criminal misconduct from the prior administration or do anything about state voter disenfranchisement or gerrymandering while they controlled the federal government. Nevermind the clown car of corporate toadies and unloveable hacks they larded up with corporate donations.
Little reason to believe they’d do better in 2024, given that Biden made “supporting a genocide” and “rolling back COVID benefits” his central platforms for the next two years.
How is an election “winnable” when your party is married to policies everyone hates? It’s like complaining about Mitt Romney losing in 2012, when Obama was underwater. The GOP trotted out an absolutely odious corporate turd - a man who literally penned the editorial “Let Detroit Go Bankrupt” four years earlier - and married him to a nepo-baby who hates social security as VP. Of course they fucking lost.
You don’t get to talk about an election being “winnable” if you insist sandbagging the primaries to run loser candidates in the general.
2024 was Trump’s election to lose. He capitalized on people’s disgust with liberals. He leaned heavily on TPUSA, QAnon, and other effective social media campaigns to juice MAGA support. He promised to bail out TikTok, the only company that wasn’t run by an American oligarch, while Biden was threatening to run them out of business. He rallied his base voters while liberals embarked upon the worst internal voter suppression campaign since 1968. And he did it all as fascist tendencies in the US were cresting.
Harris wasn’t running a winnable campaign. She was struggling (badly) to bail out a floundering Biden debacle.
If we don’t abolish this system we’re all going to die.
Everyone dies eventually. But this government seems intent on accelerating things.
And the fact is that you tell people this, verifiable fact, and they get mad and stick fingers in their ears. They really want to lose.
I remember debates on Reddit. I kept pointing out that the official inflation figures fail to measure the pain people were figuring. But I just got downvoted to Hell by a bunch of troglodytes mindlessly parroting the CPI figures, as if that was the only thing that matters.
There is a severe strain of Orwellian magical thinking among liberals. Speak no evil, see no evil, hear no evil. Ignore all bad news and try to give your way to victory.
Trump only got 49.9% of the vote. He has never been popular, even by capitalizing on disgust with liberals. It really wasn’t his election to lose, he’s not actually a strong candidate. He won by playing against an opponent that doesn’t want to win.
Trump only got 49.9% of the vote. He has never been popular,
Idk about you, but 49.9% of the vote sounds very popular to me.
Hell 10% sounds popular.
I don’t think the issue is his popularity. He’s definitely popular
Only an idiot would look at the two options and not choose Harris. She wasn’t a great candidate, but she was orders of magnitude better than the alternative.
The time to protest vote is in the primaries.
The time to protest vote is in the primaries.
There were primaries?
Not really, but that doesn’t change the fact that the other option was Donald “I’ll be a dictator on day one and you’ll never vote again” Trump.
In fact, I’d bet good money that the fact that she didn’t campaign in the primaries was the reason she softened several of her stances. Campaigning is expensive, especially if you’re starting super far behind the competition.
But just looking at her Senate voting history is enough to know she would have not been a bad president.
The primaries are run by the DNC, you silly goose!
The DNC didn’t allow us to protest vote though… they forced Biden, he proved too feeble, forced Harris, who backed Isreal, and then (yet a-fucking-gain) saw a weak voter turnout. I voted for the lesser of two evils, while holding my nose, like I needed to… but the rest of the country hates women and is too stupid to know what’s in our conjoined best-interest.
The dnc has been totally out to lunch since at least 2012. removed I’m at a point I’d be happy to see a good Republican candidate, u ever listen to George Bush talking when he was in office? The goal posts have moved so far right he sounds like a democratic leftie by todays standards.
It was in 2008, DNC went hard on fucking over Obama, and rather than reform the DNC when he won, he washed his hands of them. Now we’re here, with a group that cares more about controlling the field of candidates rather than winning a general election.
The DNC wanted the win of “first black president” and never wanted to push for polices to allow another one to happen.
Notice the Leftist in this image is purity-testing and making demands while doing nothing themselves?
Pretty accurate meme!
We are currently 3 years before the next presidential election. This is the time to purity test.
God forbid anyone want clean drinking water.
God forbid you do anything but whine about how the Republicans and Democrats are the same.
Oh, I don’t do that.
I’m currently edging for Trump to be flayed alive inside some state prison and the Democrats are preventing me from finishing.
Lovely how not actively supporting and funding a genocide is a purity test now. Beautiful stuff.
Keep both-sidesing. Maga loves it.
Don’t bother actually doing anything to get a candidate elected. Just complain about dems.
This is just absolutely wild to me. Just true unfiltered insanity. The democrats literally sent 50B in military aid to a nation that is literally committing a genocide, and if someone complains about this your reactions to effectively say “geeze complain much?”. I truly, fundamentally, do not understand how a human can have that response. It just does not compute. The only thing I can think of is that you actually don’t believe there is a genocide, or that the democrats didn’t fund it. But that too seems so far fetched, because these are both so easy to verify. None of it adds up
This is the typical neo-liberal, you can’t actually argue with them just like a MAGAt.
You don’t win elections by convincing the far left/ right to vote for you. They will vote for/against you no matter what (or abstain from voting because they see you as equally too far left/right as your opponent).
You win by convincing the undecided voters in the middle. Every vote you gain from the center is also a vote your opponent lose.
Convince them you’ll give them better living standards and they won’t care what you do with foregin policy and minority rights.
Convince them that your priorities is minorities and foregin policy and they will tell you that it’s all good and well but they are about to lose their job and the cost of living is going up so they are just going to vote for the other guy that promises to fix that.
Exactly! Which is why moving right every cycle has proved to be such a winning strategy for the democrats! Finally someone talks sense.
Also you guys are fucking idiots.
“If you don’t pick a better candidate then I’ll just let the one who wants concentration camps and to erase all of Palestine win”
Like, seriously, look at the big picture. Do you think Kamala who would have still supported Israel would have been worse for Gaza? It’s literally not possible. You guys fucked up the entire planet in your pride.
Now I’m not saying the DNC isn’t wrong, they’re fucking morons. But you guys just gave up on global warming, gay rights, trans rights, Gaza, any sembles of the environment, public health, the entire “justice” system, the courts, your immigrant neighbours, all people of colour in the US, and women’s rights.
I cannot express how much I fucking hate people like you right now.
Go ahead and downvote me. “But it’s not right”. Yeah? We’ll choosing to let this happen is leagues worse. You guaranteed the genecide in Gaza would be the worst it ever could be you fucking morons.
Go out and pressure the DNC to not be removed, but don’t fucking say there’s no difference between Kamala and Trump.
“removed democracy! You are required to vote how I want you to vote! You don’t have a choice!” /s
Hi. I’m not voting for your sorry ass candidates. Cry all you want.
This continues to be the stupidest, least productive way to think about elections. The lesser of two evils argument may be true, but it failed to motivate people to vote for Kamala in 2024 (or Hillary in 2016, for that matter). You can removed about protest votes or an apathetic electorate all you want, but at the end of the day, you don’t win elections if you don’t get votes, and, “yEaH, bUt TrUmP iS wOrSe,” didn’t get votes. If the Democrats once again run a candidate who doesn’t reflect their base and once again lose the election, it will once again be their fault for repeating a losing strategy that produces losing candidates.
But you can bet when they lose they’ll blame everyone else in the room but themselves. I don’t think the neo-liberals of the party realize how much bad blood they’ve been generating.
They know, thats why every discussion revolving politics to the left of the republicans devolves into “what the removed you gonna do, vote republican?”
Abuser mentality. Hostage politics. No democracy to be had here. All this could be ended in every blue state controlled by the democrats by passing electoral reform. By replacing First-past-the-post voting and doing away with the spoiler effect that keeps 3rd parties from having equal access to our elections.
But the democrats are uninterested in democracy. They want safe states and elections versus evil cartoon characters. And they will have them, no matter the cost to the United States of America.
Its much harder to campaign against a group of people who all have much more then just a concept of a plan. Capitalists hate competition.
It’s getting hard to tell if they even want to win. Even a year ago it might be plausible to argue that centrism is a smart strategy, but at this point, with victories like Mamdani and Mejia, it’s just demonstrably wrong. Hell, Platner is still leading Mills in Maine even after the whole, “having a Nazi tattoo,” thing. If the Democrats are still pursuing centrism going into 2028, then they have to admit they would prefer losing to fascists than adding progressives to their tent.
The US election system is stupid, antiquated and corrupt. As long as it isn’t reformed (of which it itself prevents ever happening), the lesser evil is all you will ever get from that system.
They are idiots, because they can’t reason and forecast outcomes well. If YOU cast a protest vote, then I understand your comment.
Can you please explain a strategy (other than lying) that would have appeased the dummies?
She should have lied to overcome their childish minds.
I did vote for her. I live in a comfortably Blue state, but I agreed to vote for her in solidarity with some of my swing-state friends that didn’t want to vote for her.
As for strategy, well, Kamala’s entire strategy was, “our base is already going to vote for us, so we’re going to instead pursue disaffected Republicans by campaigning with Lize Cheney and Barbara Bush.” That choice depressed the turnout of her own base and cost her the election. Motivating Democratic voters instead of chasing imaginary moderate Republicans would have been a better strategy, and it probably had a bigger impact than the Gaza protest votes.
Anyway, let’s just say you’re right, and the electorate is full of childish leftist dummies that won’t vote for Harris because they’re idiots that can’t see the big picture. Well, then what? You can piss and moan about these voters all you want, but you seem to think they were the deciding factor in 2024, so what are the Democrats gonna do to win them over? It seems unlikely that all of these people you think are idiots that can’t reason or forecast will be radically different in the next two years, so are the Democrats going to do something different in 2028, or have you just resigned to losing now?
That choice depressed the turnout of her own base and cost her the election.
I completely agree. That was disheartening to experience.
what are the Democrats gonna do to win them over?
I’m sorry for the frustrated name calling. It’s probably not helpful. I’m just so so frustrated.
For the immediate term, they should be lied to.
In the long term, we need to force their hand, and then abolish the Democratic party.
are the Democrats going to do something different in 2028
No.
have you just resigned to losing now?
The current trend has me worried.
I will likely die for this.
But you guys just gave up on global warming, gay rights, trans rights, Gaza, any sembles of the environment, public health, the entire “justice” system, the courts, your immigrant neighbours, all people of colour in the US, and women’s rights.
You forgot to include USAID.
Anyone who keeps clutching to Gaza and says Kamala would have been as bad as Trump can suck my dick.
I forgot a ton of things.
AI, your data privacy, your parents retirement, NATO, electric cars, green energy, antitrust, the chip shortage.
There’s a huge list.
i’m glad i’m not the only one shitting on 3rd party/abstainers every chance i get. high and mighty morality police, usually saying removed like “kamala was always going to lose” while simultaneously trying to push the 100% guaranteed fail action of 3rd party or sitting out.
whether they’re actually russian propaganda trolls or not hardly matters–they’re removed human beings either way
On the other hand, this is a fine time for this conversation. We do have roughly a year to find a candidate that’s not fucking Newsom just because he could meme for a minute.
I don’t mind a few memes in our politics, but I do want there to be some kind of substance under the memes. And not the substance Magats have found under theirs, 💩.
no. this removed is the reason we’re in this situation, innocent citizens getting rounded up, deported, murdered. because so many people wanted to moralize, “vote their conscience,” “wE dIdNt GeT a PrImArY”…whatthefuckever, while the rest of us were shouting that everyone’s top priority needs to be keeping trump out of the white house.
so again: if it ends up that newsom, or harris, or a fucking lobotomized muskrat ends up being the candidate–VOTE FOR THE FUCKING MUSKRAT instead of trump, or 3rd party, or, ffs sitting out
i will die on this hill. you might too
“wE dIdNt GeT a PrImArY"
Standards are low.
How do you think we got trump in the first place? Democrats kept moving to the right and making things worse until a candidate like trump could seize the moment. So yeah, you will die on that hill because it was a hill built by voting the “lesser of two evils” while both parties moved to be more evil, until we’ve got the current level of evil we have now.
I mean, I generally agree with you, but like most things this isn’t black and white. It’s a nuanced thing that needs to be handled with care. I get it; Large movements are terrible at nuance.
While we’re two years out from the start of the campaign, we can certainly encourage the Dems to find an actual progressive.
Hillary was better than Newsom. It’s funny that California Dems are blasted as the most liberal, when they might be the most conservative Dems outside of West Virginia.
Yes, anything is better than fascism. That point was more important 18 months ago, and might be more important again 12 months from now.
It’s also important how you say what you have to say. Dems are absolutely not the ones to blame for all this removed. Not doing enough is not the same as directly causing the disaster.
this isn’t black and white
please.
remove fascism vs keep fascism seems pretty “black and white” to me. what the chicken fried removed are you talking about “nuance” at this point? vote against trump, or do anything else; that’s the choices. ideal? no. reality? yes. you think we should bicker and argue about the “best” person to oppose trump while the fascists are 100% behind whoever the removed chimpanzee is on the ballot that they’re going to vote for regardless, because they have ® by their name. THAT is how democrats lose
i’m not “blaming dems”, nor did i imply such at any point anywhere, so you can go ahead and eliminate that bullshit from your argument.
good luck with your “find an actual progressive” aka 3rd party with about zero chance of actually winning any election for any office anywhere. i will try to come to terms with the fact that we’re in fascism from now on, because not-fascists just can’t seem to grasp “vote against fascism no matter what”
thanks for your insight. i hope you don’t have kids
remove fascism vs keep fascism seems pretty “black and white” to me.
Democrats don’t even want to defund ICE. How are they removing fascism?
it never ceases to amaze…
we have a racist child rapist murderous fascist corrupt-to-the-core fucking con man in the white house
but hey! let’s talk about all the democrats’ problems!
any ballot cast that isn’t D all the way down is the objectively wrong choice
“find an actual progressive” aka 3rd party
lol no. You don’t get to strawman and then be a rude piece of removed about it.
people are getting murdered by ice.
and a rando on lemmy is what’s making you mad
nuance
Agreed. But I’m not going to publicly endorse a dead-end DNC loser before it’s necessary. The DNC needs to act like people aren’t required to vote for them and field a candidate that can actually win votes.
WRONG!
You hype the Dems in public every chance you get.
The GOP once elected a dead pimp because they don’t care.
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Hof, who had been a Republican since 2016, ran against Democratic challenger Lesia Romanov in a heavily Republican district that included parts of Nye County and surrounding rural areas BuzzFeed News. He was known for his flamboyant style, his HBO reality series Cathouse, and his self-proclaimed role as the “Trump of Pahrump”
People don’t like being insulted and taken advantage of. Why is that so hard to understand?
So your feelings are more important than the oppression of all the minoritzed groups?
You have piss poor reading comprehension. I suggest you enroll in an adult learning class at your local community college.
Elections are in some way a validation of the system. The elites point to the election any time someone complains about some policy. The entire system has been consistently getting worse regardless of who is in power for at least 30+ years. The only way we have to express our displeasure is to vote out the incumbent. I’m confident that even if Kamala had won, things would have gotten worse. Maybe they would be worse at a slower rate, but they would be worse. We need to see beyond electoral politics. Every time you vote, you are granting the rich permission to continue to removed you regardless of who you voted for.
Every time you vote, you are granting the rich permission to continue to removed you regardless of who you voted for.
And do you think that, by refraining from voting, you would somehow deny the rich that permission? That’s probably why all the openly corrupt, unapologetically authoritarian politicians go out of their way to ensure everyone is able to cast a ballot, right? Because they know that, the more people vote, the more permission the rich will have to removed everyone. That makes a lot of sense. Thanks for your enlightened contribution here.
Hey man there’s other ways to get their dick out of your ass. Lenin, Fidel and Mao figured it out.
I assume all those “vote third party both side same” people were bots or Russian trolls. Obviously trump was always gonna be way worse
They aren’t. That’s an easy scapegoat. Influenced by Russian propaganda, sure, but we’re all influenced by propaganda. The vast majority are ordinary citizens, who are as convinced of the righteousness of their beliefs as anyone. Dismissing them, en masse, as bots and trolls isn’t helpful.
The fact is, many of them have very valid points. Where they need to be fought is, very specifically, when they encourage non-voting. There’s no good argument for non-voting, and it’s easy to defeat them there.
Yeah…
To the people “wanting to teach the DNC a lesson”, in the nicest way possible, you’re fucking idiots.
They threw literally ever other minority group under the bus, and got absolutely nothing for it - if anything they actually got less than nothing, because Trump wasn’t just going soft on Israel, he was actively cheering them on!
I will never understand the mentality of choosing that hill to die on… Like couldn’t you guys have waited until Trump was at least off the board first.
Man was literally on his way to a lifetime in jail and bankruptcy, that he got out of scot-free because you guys decided 2024 was the time for a protest vote.
We had the chance to get rid of Trump forever and the tankies blew it
Yeah all right, that’s as good a definition as any I suppose. It’s still something about it, though, it’s like this term that means everything and nothing, and lends itself super well to nebulous definition, so no one can really decide what it is whether they are for or against it. It’s messed up.
It’s like, I think just calling things “leftist” is a way dumb oversimplification- much more so than I think that “conservative” is even though that definition is even looser and completely devoid of actual ideology, even by their own admittance.
I don’t know, I just find this whole shitshow tiring, I’m not sure what we’re doing here.
I mean, I feel like woke isn’t a thing to be for or against, it’s literally being aware. There is an implied woke=anti-cruelty, but I feel like you can be woke and support the oppression of others through the power of the system. Just don’t expect other people to recognize your “wokeness” or be pleased that you’re so aware that the things you’re doing are cruel and shitty.
This feels like my step dad being upset that the weather channel is trying to scare us by calling it an atmospheric river! Like dude we’re using a fun new term to describe a weather pattern, it just means rain if you’re caught beneath the river. Not scary unless you’re in a flood zone.
Wasn’t the chance to get rid of trump immediately after January 6th? Are you calling Biden a tanky?
I think the argument is that voting for status quo candidates aren’t actually getting us those things, either. And any small incremental gains are quickly reverted the next time republicans are in power.
Almost as if you have to actually work to have nice things.
Who could imagine??
Yes! Primaries primaries primaries.
Go and primary every single DNC candidate that isn’t good enough, get better democratic candidates wherever you can. Put even more energy into primaries than into the election itself! But when the decision comes down to Churchill or Hitler, you better vote for fucking Churchill.
Everything else is just throwing the minorities and the future under the bus as a cost of doing business.
https://sourcenews.scot/analysis-5-of-the-worst-crimes-of-winston-churchill/
Churchill is probably viewed as worse than Hitler in parts of the world for good reason.
I think a lot of the argument against voting for lesser evil is the acceleration aspect. It’s advocating for a quicker fall of the American empire
Accelerationism is a great idea.
I don’t care how many people die now, because it will bring a glorious time in the future.
Accelerationism is Christianity with Lenin replacing Jesus
If Trump runs again you’ve fucked up. He can’t just run for a third term.
Trump can be long dead and buried, yet I feel like he’s still going to be running in every US election for the next few decades. The majority of his supporters have only doubled down on his brand of politics, so there will always be another Trump.
