I’m working on it. Maybe. Well, one day. Like when other Left of centre, anti trump, anti corpo type folks oppose the things I oppose in correct manner and degree, duh.
One of the most interesting things I noticed about the fediverse is that while I disagree very heartily on politics with a number of people I rarely disagree with them on everything, even most things really. There’s few enough users that you’re going to see people you have tagged, after they’ve said crazy or insane shit, who then go on to make points you agree with 100%. It’s very odd. I guess it’s why the fediverse feels more genuine to me.
Maybe the other place was just more absolute bots trying to push specific agendas. Cause it seemed way different there.
I have had a very similar observation based on a feature of Voyager that shows you the total upvotes you have given a user, net of downvotes, next to their name.
In addition to what you observe, I’ve also saved myself from being too dismissive or reading a comment more carefully based on that number at least being an indication that I’ve had good interactions with this person in the past.
God that’s such a cool feature. Jerboa was by far the best app when I joined lemmy but it’s really been surpassed.
You are +6 for me, by the way, so we must have had some good interaction
Ooooh that’s a neat metric to help! I’ve been using an ever expanding system of notes but it’s much more labour intensive than that!
If you have multiple accounts, which most of us probably do for stability reasons, it also aggregates everything across them so vote counts and user tags still show up on brand new accounts.
It’s very very nice.
I didn’t know that, that is sick.
TIL about tagging users. thanks.
But some just go to such an extreme I find it difficult to not have the insults that were hurled at me in the back of my head, even on takes where I do agree with them. Like, yeah, I agree with you, but you did call me an imperial pig and a fascist so fuck you anyway.
Nice name
i mean part of why i exist is to say crazy shit. i am not entirely here let’s be honest.
It’s not odd. They are people.
What’s odd is your expectation that you can have nothing in common with someone you disagree with over one thing.
NEW USER: “I came to Lemmy because Reddit permabanned me for saying puppies and kittens are cute.”
Then I find myself looking at their comment/post history because that doesn’t really sound like a normal thing anybody would get banned for. And after seeing what they post/comment here, I think to myself “I disagree with permabanning people, but I think I understand why it might’ve been done.”
Ahahaha, yeah I’m instantly a little suspicious when someone says they got permabanned for “nothing, absolutely nothing!”
I was once permabanned on a couple of subreddits I had never visited before because I had commented on a thread in a sub they apparently didn’t like. It was called Kotaku and I had never heard of it before. Just saw a movie thread and commented because I love movies. The thing I hated the most about reddit was the expectation that everybody were as terminally online as the mods were. Not my fault a sub pops up in my feed and I decide to comment on the topic.
Was likewise permabanned from the true childfree subreddit for making a post where I wanted to talk to people about the thoughts and doubts that comes with being childfree. I was going through some things at the time and just wanted to talk to likeminded people. Permabanned for “trolling”.
And finally was permabanned for racism on a sub where the topic was the little mermaid remake and I mentioned that I thought Halle Bailey deserved better than to work for Disney. Had followed her and her sister’s youtube channel on/off since 2014 and really liked their voices and I didn’t want a young artist to be chewed up and spit out by one of the worst entertainment companies ever. I still love her and Chloe’s cover of Say Something and think it is better than the original.
So yeah, sometimes you get permabanned for literally no reason or a made up reason. I had no sad feelings when I left reddit. I absolutely hated the mods on most subs. None of them seemed to have lived in the real world for years.
Until you get your IP permabanned site-wide, those are just trivial anecdotes
I believe I got perma banned for posting Luigi gifs and guillotines after the UHC guy got euthanized.
The real reason Reddit gave was something about using another account to avoid a ban … but I only had one account. Reddit was just weird, had to be an AI thing.
Just admit you got permabanned for saying we should normalize punching nazis, it’s nothing to be ashamed of. It’s why we’re all here.
Lol I got a temp once for referencing milkshake in a certain context. Advocating violent moo juice
That wasn’t site-wide, was it? That doesn’t sound like reddit admins, more like subreddit-specific mods.
That was a sub.
That’s funny, because I originally wrote “hunting nazis” but revised it to “punching nazis” to make it more palatable to the non-violent. Although either statement would get you banned on reddit…
the only good Nazi is a dead Nazi.
💀
@Gentryfried@feddit.uk, is there something you disagree with my statement?
do you think that Nazi’s should live in the same world as the rest of us?
As far as I knew all Nazis have been dead for a long time…if there are living Nazi’s, shouldn’t they be dead?
I can only hope the downvote was because even dead nazis are bad.
I managed to gain one and I have no idea whether I was misunderstood or just managed to meet the worst admin ever.
Basically, it was the recent story about girl guides. Someone asked what the hell transphobes are thinking when pushing for stuff like this.
My reply was ‘children are predators’. As in ascribing that thought, in a tongue-in-cheek manner, to transphobes. Banned.
I have no idea if they thought I was seriously suggesting that trans children, or indeed any children, are predators, or if transphobes are now a protected minority. It’s the UK, it really could go either way.
But anyway, here I am in my new non-reddit home.
Were you permabanned from Reddit or just banned from a specific subreddit? Those are two entirely different things, and sometimes people don’t seem to understand or don’t care to admit it.
Sucks to be permabanned from the whole site over that comment if that’s what happened, but hopefully you took that as an experience to learn and grow (and not just as a reason to reinforce your discontent with Reddit itself) so that you don’t necessarily bring that same energy to other spaces.
Honestly, that’s a problem for a lot of ex-Redditors in my strictly subjective opinion. They claim to hate the place, but then bring the same exact energy here. I’m fine with a diversity of opinion and antics, but if I wanted to interact with Redditor behavior, I’d just go to Reddit.
Anyway, I myself LOATHE having to use “/s” to denote when I’m being sarcastic or deploying a bit of mockery/parody. However, I recognize that my intent does not obligate others to abide, nor is my intent and its effect on others guaranteed to align. I would say in the context that you describe, I probably wouldn’t make that kind of comment or if I did I would at least do the thing I hate so much and just use a “/s” or sPonGE CAsE, perhaps.
In your new non-reddit home, the bad Reddit-like moderator behavior is alive and thriving here as well. It’s not all fairy farts and unicorn blow around here. You probably already knew that, but just in case, figured I’d give you a heads up.
I got permabanned from instances because I hurt a snowflake admins feelings by arguing against them.
shit made my day because I was still able to call them idiots, just not on their instance.
Look if you losers just accept that I am actually right about everything and no one has any grounds to challenge my beliefs things will be much better for all of us /s
I agree as long as you agree with me.
I agree
Good, I’ll put my gun away now.
not just disagree, disagree SLIGHTLY YOU DIRTY FUCKERS WHY ARE YOU NOT MY POLITICAL MIRROR
Whatever your side is, it’s the wrong one.
the battle of underinformed takes! what’s not to like?
Isn’t that what the internet is for?
it is. at least it should.
Dangit, I love the emojis but we don’t have a saluting one yet!
i blame capitalism for that.
Most of my friends don’t share the exact beliefs I do in regards to pretty much anything, doesn’t mean we can’t get together and yell at each other about it over a few beers around the campfire.
Oh absolutely. Heck, a good number of my friends are conservative.
I think maybe a lot of the nuance and consideration doesn’t translate well to strangers online, so instead of seeking to understand we flip to fighting and without the context of a good friendship, we don’t really know how to navigate those arguments online.
(Also, we don’t have that filter of “oh, just don’t get into X with Janet, you know she’ll start yelling” for folks. Sp double whammy.)
Meh, I don’t do politics as a joke or as a hobby. I do it because its serious shit that effects peoples lives. And I arrive at my conclusions based of solid evidence, and am willing to change my views to better fit existing evidence. So, that being said…
yeah, if you disagree with me majorly, you are instantly a piece of shit. I am always exclusively pro humanitarian and anti capitalist. If you are arguing against me, you are arguing against human rights and you are arguing for exploitation, and I will not and should not tolerate that. Dont be a piece of shit and i wont treat you you like one, my policies are what they are for a reason and if id seen a better policy then IT would be my policy instead.
Tl;dr Basically, we all have access to the internet. I am educated. You(“some person”, not actually you) are evidently not. Why would you come into a comment thread and knowingly start spreading false information about something you know nothing about?
Humans are born uninformed and the monkey part of our brains tells us that we are right and there is no deeper layer to “obvious” things. I’m just as mad when peoples default state is confidently incorrect but I try not to say anything mean, because hey maybe that was me at some point.
It’s still you today, and will you be in the future.
It just find it hilarious how people take these absolutist stances on issues, as if they are God-like, when they have limited information on them. And if you present them with information that shows their view is limited, they just hate you for it.
The issue is people’s egotistical need to feel superior/correct. And they will not give that up. What’s interesting about actual experts, is they don’t take that approach. They openly discuss the limits of their knowledge and capability… laymen do the exact opposite and emotionally insist that their lack of knowledge makes their understanding more honest… or something.
Hence people will read one comment you make, and make that totally determinate of your entire personality and belief system. Because, they KNOW WHO YOU REALLY ARE. Based on a sentence you randomly typed once on a website…
and will you be in the future.
A friend of mine designed this for me to reflect my taste in politics. I’ve had them made into stickers 💚
I mean yes, you’re welcome to visit my home unless you’re a hateful piece of shit.
You’re welcome to visit the bar unless you come in acting like a belligerent asshole.
You’re implying some contradiction as if this isn’t how this has always worked.
A welcoming person does not welcome Nazis into a space where people are welcome.
I mean this with all kindness but the fact that nobody has banned you is probably the reason the fediverse won’t catch on.
What’s the point of avoiding corporate social media if the human powered kind is adopting their same tolerance for toxicity.
Politics is always the great divider, but on Reddit it was enough to get a full pile-on going to the point that the human was lost and the only thing that mattered was winning the point.
Here? Yeah you get pile-ons, but markedly less so, and it’s easier to not take personally 10 people disagreeing with you instead of 100. Perhaps this will change with time as Lemmy gets more popular
Oooof, I’m going to hope that’s based in general on the meme!
If that is based on past experience, happy to learn more etc. I generally try to act as a reasonably conscientious fedizen, and basically try to stay in my own lane (though my lane does include memes etc I make…)
Lol yes based on the meme!
Phew!
I hate Trump but think democrats are the only party that are in a position to save us from him.
Thoughts?
I don’t think democrats are even all that interested in preventing fascism. Establishment liberals don’t have a good track record of beating fascism and I don’t think we should keep making the mistake of expecting them to do so.
They’re more interested than Jill Stein and get more votes the Rachelle Fruit so I’d say they can be worked with.
I guess I am just not expecting to defeat fascism through electoral politics. It didn’t really work before and I don’t see any reason for it to work now.
It didn’t work because we voted the dictator in.
Sure but fascism isn’t just one dude. Them not getting elected doesn’t end fascism. We already have fascist in our government. They’re in our police force, military, local administrations, legislature, and judicial system. Many of them own significant portions of our national economy, some of them even have international capital. Fascists are willing to cheat, lie, and kill for power. You can’t stop that with a single election or even a series of them. If you think that you can then you have vastly underestimated our enemy.
The nazis lost elections before they won them. They didn’t go away after losing, they got stronger.
Fascists need to be identified and purged fron official positions, the financial assets of bourgeois fascists should be seized, and most importantly the material conditions (poverty mostly) that made fascism appealing to millions of people need to be resolved. I don’t think democrats are willing to do this.
Biden and Obama were making life better while Trump is speedrunning everything you’re saying about everyone else.
I honestly don’t understand how either of those people are relevant to what I said and idk what you mean by “everything you’re saying about everyone else”. I wasn’t referring to any specific people or any actions those unspecified people are currently taking.
My comment was regarding the current level of fascist power, the inadequacy of elections to eliminate them as a threat, the historical effectiveness of elections in regard to the nazis, and actions that could be effective at stopping fascism.
I disagree with political parties entirely. We must unite and fight, but I guess we gotta start somewhere, and that may be with the Democrats.
I agree wholeheartedly with this.
I think on the Left we’re our own worst enemy. Our far Left folks want to reject everything when it’s imperfect/centrist etc whereas thr Far Right seem fine working with government etc and end up advancing their aims.
Personally, I’m also not sure how widely embraced our more socialist tendencies would get us. In a pretty Left leaning city like NY, Mamdami ran pretty much as our wet dream candidate and still couldn’t hit 50% of the votes. And I think that our inability to see that a majority of the country may not agree with us really skews our perceptions.
I always say that if leftists could ever learn the lesson “perfect is the enemy of good” then we could actually radically change the world.
In my more conspiratorial moments, I do wonder if part of the point of social media was to keep us infighting so hard on incredibly niche issues.
If I were rich and in charge, I would be on my knees thanking heavens that of all the things the Left and Right are fighting over, transgender sports is a bizzarely major issue instead of, yknow, almost anything else that would seriously change things.
With you 100%. The way niche (note I didn’t say unimportant, keyboard warriors) issues are propped up as focal points in political discourse has all the markings of manipulated discourse, imo.
Right? In what rational universe is “some people got angry on twitter” a legit angle to a news story unless your point is to prop up aforementioned keyboard warriors.
I agree, but only because the media is so tightly controlled by the ruling class.
If a new media platform broke out that they did not have control over, and a reasonable left third party took control of that platform, and many people ran to it, basically if, you know, you could win the lottery twice while being struck by lightning and getting hit by a falling meteorite, then a third party could actually emerge and win.
But with them owning Twitter and Facebook and Reddit and Instagram and WhatsApp and every single news station on the planet, there’s just no way to communicate what the world could be like to the people who would vote for the better world.
deleted by creator
UK also has winner takes all elections, yet “third parties” have substantially more traction over there.
My only problem are the authoritarian types, namely tankies and fascists. Anyone who are pro-democracy are okay in my book.
But as an anarchist, ‘democracy’ has a number of meanings in different contexts to me.
Do I believe a team of people with a common interest should vote on tactics and/or a spokesperson to represent themselves? Yes
Do I believe a country of millions of completely different people should vote on whose boot they’re going to be under for the next several years? No
My problem isn’t the choice, it’s the idea that there should be a boot in the first place, but the result is the same. I’m anti-democratic in the sense most people are talking about when they invoke democracy.
My experience on Lemmy as very milque toast center left person has been pretty horrible so far, ngl. I hadn’t even been here two weeks before I had to block most instances and several insane users who accused me of being a fascist for having the most normal, basic bitch takes. Something as simple as “I’m looking for non political instances because all this angry politics is exhausting and it is bleeding into everything on here” is apparently fascism.
The rest of Lemmy blocked me for transphobia because I suggested that trans men and trans women have their own categories in professional sports in order to make it more equal and safe for everybody.
I’m really only still here because I like the Danish feddit and enjoy popping in on the ADHD meme forum to chat with likeminded chaotics.
The rest of this whole network of forums feels like I’m walking on even more eggshells than I did the on reddit.
>post complaining about lack of tolerance for different political views
>looks inside
>“Why do people get so mad when I just want to take trans people’s rights away”
I am begging liberals to understand that this “trans people in sports issue” is not about sports. It’s being pushed with tons of money by far-right groups as a wedge issue and it’s not going to stop there. You are doing their work for them. Stop looking at this as some far off, philosophical abstraction and start looking at it in terms of what it is: a war.
First of all, the original thread that caused me the ban was suggesting that all people who were critical of trans people in pro sports were MAGA. I shared my view point in order to disprove that notion. I’m very well aware that there are MAGA people with crazy views who make up crazy scenarios and that’s why I mostly don’t bother talk about the trans people in sports issue because that is not what is important right now.
All I wanted to do with my original comment, was to show that not everyone who question this specific issue is MAGA and that it is silly to claim so.
Second of all, where did I ever claim to want to take trans people’s rights away? Please stop putting words in my mouth.
Third of all, I am not a liberal and I’m not American. You couldn’t know that, but not every person on the internet is American nor do they live their lives through the American lens. That is also why lumping people like me in with MAGA is not only stupid, it is also a self report on how limited a scope one has on the nuances of perspectives people can have outside in the world and outside the US.
Second of all, where did I ever claim to want to take trans people’s rights away? Please stop putting words in my mouth
Do you think trans people should continue to have the right to participate in sports in accordance with the gender they identify as, yes or no?
Third of all, I am not a liberal and I’m not American. You couldn’t know that, but not every person on the internet is American nor do they live their lives through the American lens.
Where on earth did I imply you’re American? Stop putting words in my mouth.
Sure, as long as it is safe for everybody. My main concern is combat sports where I don’t know if trans men and biological women wold be safe against an opponent who has been born with male musculature.
That is not the same as me wanting trans people to have no rights at all. It’s not black and white.
You called me a liberal. That must mean you’re talking through the American lens. You’re acting obtuse and aggressive for no reason. I feel no need to converse with you any further.
I wrestle. Wrestlers are wrestlers first. Weight class is more important for safety than gender.
Sports are more fun with similar skill levels for athletes. Separating sports on gender boundaries excludes skilled women from competition against equally skilled men.
That is not the same as me wanting trans people to have no rights at all.
And what I said was that you wanted to take away rights, not have trans people have no rights at all.
You called me a liberal. That must mean you’re talking through the American lens
Lmao, wtf?
The rest of lemmy blocked you for transphobia because you shared transphobic views, views that are not based in reality. If you are going to suggest something which concerns the treatment and rights of a group which is currently being oppressed and targeted worldwide, please ensure that you are doing so based on facts rather than vibes.
I can empathise with wanting to disengage from political discourse from time to time.
I fully disagree with you there on my views being transphobic. If so, then the bar is in hell for what should and shouldn’t be considered transphobia. I reserve such term for actual oppression and hatred of a group where the hater actively wants to remove their ability to partake in society. It’s also not sexist to not have men and women box each other in a boxing ring, but instead keep them separated for safety and fairness.
I don’t mind disagreeing with people on different issues, but I resent whenever someone throws a label on their opponent instead of trying to talk about the issue in good faith. The rhetoric you use is a good example of why people can’t talk about anything with one another anymore without extremism being brought into it. It’s unproductive, fuels division among people who are otherwise likeminded and it creates echo chambers where no one ever has their views challenged. That is not the way if we want a normal and balanced society where everybody can talk with one another in good faith.
Separating men and women in certain physical sports for safety and fairness is founded in reality and fact. Separating transgender women from cisgender women has no such foundation, and in fact the research directly disagrees with it. There is a minor difference between cisgender men and transgender men in terms of physical performance.
Your views are transphobic because you share and propagate disinformation about transgender people while, if this conversation is anything to go by, willingly choosing not to educate yourself on what the facts are.
Me pointing out that you are factually incorrect is not “unproductive” unless you as an individual refuse to educate yourself on what the facts are. I didn’t call you a transphobe, I never said anything about you. I never labelled you. I told you that you were wrong. Perhaps you should look inward if you consider it “echo chambery” and “extremism” when you are told by a transgender woman that you are sharing harmful views about transgender people.
Christ, I’m going to regret this but…
Separating men and women in certain physical sports for safety and fairness is founded in reality and fact. Separating transgender women from cisgender women has no such foundation, and in fact the research directly disagrees with it. There is a minor difference between cisgender men and transgender men in terms of physical performance.
This argument is self defeating. Unless you’re going to insist every transgender athlete be some arbitrary distance along their transition etc, this is nonsense. Plenty of transgender folks aren’t using hormones etc yet, heck I play with one.
If we agree on a)
Separating men and women in certain physical sports for safety and fairness is founded in reality and fact.
And that b) it is in fact hormones etc are what changes the strength
And c) that trans women are not compelled to have hormones therapy or surgery until/if they are ready, then unless you are going to demand a minimum amount of hormones or time (which, hey, maybe that’s the quiet part of our policy) this is a nonsense argument.
We don’t agree on a), because I think that the division in professional sports shouldn’t be by gender in the first place, but by some actual physical metric like mass or hormone levels. The “distance along transition” isn’t arbitrary because there is research into muscle mass/strength/body makeup variation with time for hormone treatment in transgender individuals. A research based approach to the threshold is the obvious answer. Rather than arbitrarily othering transgender people into their own little trans leagues. Cis people should be subject to the same things, otherwise your core concern isn’t about safety but about gatekeeping where trans people and only trans people can participate
b) agreement here
c) I think this falls out quite obviously with my stance in my first paragraph, but yes. all professional athletes (see: not just transgender people) should be divided up in a safe and fair way. If a cisgender woman just so happened to have absolute brute genetics and displayed the sort of physical strength and body mass that you would typically only see of men, would it be any more safe for her to compete aginst other women? Obviously not. The fair and just thing to do is not to segregate transgender people, but to change how we divide up professional sport leagues so that everybody is treated fairly and can play safely.
Also wtf is with the “Christ, I’m going to regret this” attitude? I’ve been calm and level in all my engagement here.
Also wtf is with the “Christ, I’m going to regret this” attitude? I’ve been calm and level in all my engagement here.
Because the fediverse isn’t just you? Trans stuff generally leads to a dogpile of self righteousness. For the next few days I can look forward to dm’s about how I’m a transphobe, responses ranging from assholish to abusive etc. And it’s not like we’re going to come to agreement but…
But, I do think your point has pivoted a bit. from
Separating men and women in certain physical sports for safety and fairness is founded in reality and fact. to I think that the division in professional sports shouldn’t be by gender in the first place
and these are fundamentally different.
First, in popular context, the big concern about this is in high school and college sports, not professional. And not rec leagues, though sometimes it goes there.
The second stance requires every sport to be reconfigured etc, which gets into the absurdities. (I’m just trying to even imagine how you would do it for the sport I watch most, hockey. On my pitiful Canucks team, we have Connor Garland, who is smaller than some of the women on our PWHL team but having seen both play, it would be incredibly unfair to put Garland in the PWHL. Or my trans soccer teammate who is faster and stronger than almost every woman we play but is similar sized.)
And hey, that’s a valid stance and admirable but it is very different than what you led off with. There’s no way anyone reading your first response would think that, despite claiming there are no differences between cis and trans women, you actually also want to separate sports based on size etc. Again, valid stance but very different from what you started with.
Yeah. People who are being attacked from all sides atm tend to be a little titchy. Can’t justify anyone who is abusive toward you, hope that doesn’t happen.
When I said
Separating men and women in certain physical sports for safety and fairness is founded in reality and fact
I was speaking loosely because I didn’t want to get into the miniscule details of what my proposed solution is to sports safety. It is founded in reality and fact (but there are significant issues with this approach because edge cases and actually I believe blah blah).
I wasn’t speaking about popular context, the person I was replying to specifically mentioned professional sports, and so that’s the context I was discussing. I can’t debate a point they never made.
Yes, status quo is cis-centric and inherently does not support the existence of transgender people. I do believe that sport should get the big reconfiguration you are talking about. Radical change is required in a great many spaces to actually be fair and just. Sport is one of these. Do I believe it will happen? No, not really. The world does not care enough about whether it is just and fair. I will welcome change that is less radical, but I cannot pretend it is my ideal.
Re: how to do it - research, data. What are the factors that lead to increased performance outcomes and what are the factors that lead to higher rates of injury. Account for these. Throwing transgender people into their own leagues so you don’t have to actually do the hard work to truly include them is, I reiterate, transphobic.
I dont think wanting to separate sport based on actual measurable physical metrics rather than a social demographic is at odds with the fact that cis/trans women (on hormones for long enough) lose their significant differences for sport. Separating sport based on physical metrics would mean that someone at the top of the bell curve isn’t breaking the skull of someone at the bottom of the bell curve just because they are both women, cis or trans doesn’t even come into that.
I have a moment to reply to you now, so hopefully this will suffice:
I’m actually not only talking about transwomen vs bio women. I’m also talking about transmen vs bio men. I’m especially concerned about combat sports and similar where people could get seriously hurt due to a physical advantage/disadvantage. There are definitely sports where the skills needed aren’t depending on gender in the same way as others, but for me it’s always been about making sure that everybody has a fair chance and is safe. In disciplines where that isn’t an issue, I don’t care. I only care where there the advantages/disadvantages are a factor.
I also think I need to clear up that I don’t run around talking about trans people in sports all the time. To the best of my memory, I only brought up in the thread where I was permabanned from most of Lemmy because the thread claimed that all people who hold the opinion about trans people in pro sports are MAGA and I wanted to share that, that wasn’t always the case. I never really got to explain myself, just got labeled and banned and that was my main point in my original comment about how extreme Lemmy is and how difficult it is to foster a healthy debate forum when people are just as, if not more aggressive here than they were on reddit.
I’m not “unwilling to educate myself”. I just shared an opinion once and brought it up here as an example of how Lemmy is a terrible place for people to have talks and diverse opinions.
To me, it isn’t so much the opinions people have on here that disgusts me, it’s the way they communicate and debate. It is on an infantile level and it almost always in bad faith. That was my point in my original comment.
I frankly don’t give a damn what people do with their lives as long as they are happy and safe.
Also, I didn’t know you were trans and it doesn’t really change much for me either. I simply don’t agree that my view - not views - was transphobic. It may be uneducated since it’s not a topic I know everything about, but for something to be transphobic, it implies actively wanting to hurt and exclude trans people from society. You’re not gonna find me stating either anywhere.
I believe the most productive way to open people’s minds to the world isn’t to immediately go on the offensive and assume the worst about them when they say something that makes you go “Hm, I didn’t like that.” Most of the time it forces people into a very defensive position and closes them off from the points you’re trying to make and that is unfortunate.
I’m guilty of that myself, but I work on it and always try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt until they no longer deserve it. The latest example we had in the community I hail from was a guy who became increasingly unhinged in his views and we tried talking to him until the admin had to ban him when he crossed the line and started arguing for lynchings. The first couple of months he just seemed to have some unpopular opinions that we tried to understand where he was coming from and in the end he just turned out to be nuts, which is a shame. I know the cultures are different in different communities here, but I do like it best when we try and understand one another and not carry over the social engineering the big tech bros instilled in us to be hostile and trigger happy toward everyone we meet online. That is why I left mainstream social media. I want a social media where people can actually connect and see each other as human beings underneath one opinion you or I or they don’t like.
Because I’m pretty sure most of us are pretty chill and friendly people when we aren’t stuck in that loop of aggressive communication.
I have to dip again, but I hope some of my novel here helped give some context.
I hope you have a nice and way less busy day than me @,@
It is “trans women/men” not “transwomen/men” (trans is an adjective, not a prefix, they are men/women, who are trans) and “cis men/women” not “biological men/women” (the concept of biological sex goes far deeper than what this use of the term implies, and it is also inappropriate to be talking about trans men/women, which is a gender, vs “biological” men/women, which means you’re actually talking about sex). Transmen/women and biological men/women are very much anti-trans dogwhistly terms (again - not implying you meant it as a dogwhistle, but telling you where you may be a better ally)
I think I made it quite clear in my post you replied to that I was also talking about trans men! I acknowledged that there were minor physical differences in trans men vs cis men. I am also concerned with safety - see the rest of my posts in this thread where I address the issue of safety! I am by no means suggesting that people who do have significant disparity be pit against one another, I am simply not choosing to limit that delineation only to transgender people.
There are definitely sports where the skills needed aren’t depending on gender
This isn’t what we are discussing, you suggested separating people who have the same gender from one another. Trans women and cis women are both women, as trans men and cis men are both men.
The first time you shared the opinion, sure, you aren’t unwilling. But continuing to hold such an opinion and defend it when challenged despite not actually investigating how valid it is in reality, shows an unwillingness to learn. Your opinion in this case is not innocuous - it is something that will affect the lives of a group of people who are already constantly under attack by the media, governments, and those around them.
I can’t really vouch for what you said specifically that got you banned, or for the reaction to what you said, some instances are more reactive in that sense than others.
I am glad to have been an example of non-infantile response to you in debate.
I don’t mean to harp on but
it implies actively wanting to hurt or exclude trans people from society
Having a separate category for trans men and a separate category for trans women is literally exclusionary. It reinforces the (transphobic) idea that trans men are not men and trans women are not women. You, despite maybe not being a transphobe, currently hold one (1) view that is itself transphobic. And hey, I don’t think its entirely your fault. Transphobia is so deeply rooted in our society that even trans people struggle with internalised transphobia.
But if its the word “transphobia” that is where its getting stuck then let me rephrase. It is a view which at best is just false and misinformed and has overlap with genuine anti-trans rhetoric, and at worst contributes to the continued oppression of transgender people.
I believe the most productive way to open people’s minds to the world isn’t to immediately go on the offensive and assume the worst about them when they say something that makes you go “Hm, I didn’t like that.” Most of the time it forces people into a very defensive position and closes them off from the points you’re trying to make and that is unfortunate.
This is a sticky one. It is not the job of the oppressed to educate anybody, I hope we can agree on that. I agree that the approach you are talking about is not the best way to sway someone, but put yourself in the shoes of trans folk. It is a constant barrage of hate. For safety, it can be better to assume the worst and be proven wrong. It is also exhausting to always have to be the one who is trying to justify your existence and inclusion. All the same goes for other marginalised groups. Judging by your post history I think you’re a woman, another marginalized group. I am sure you can appreciate what I’m getting at. It is, honestly, self defense, and I can’t fault people for it.
You’re right though that it crops up in other places too. Tankies hate the libs, libs hate the tankies, anarchists hate the libs, the right hates the libs, socialists hate the libs. /j. I think its just a symptom of online forums if left unchecked. There are instances which are worse and better for this though. My instance for example, beehaw, has the rule of “be(e) nice”, and I think you can typically expect to have a good discussion with a beehaw user even if you disagree.
Hope your busy day is nice at least.
Just a heads up, it’s been a busy day and I’ll have an even busier day tomorrow, but I’ll try and reply to your comment when I have a moment to collect my thoughts. :)
All good, keep well
Same to you, my friend 🤗
I love how people popped up to confirm your point.
Happens everytime. I will say, though, that the people criticizing my comments here are pretty chill and normal compared to some of the batshit insanity I was met with early on when I joined Lemmy. So if anything, this is an improvement.
Yeah, one thing that really helped me was watching out for communities in .ml, that’s where a lot of our crazy comes from. I almost never comment in posts from those communities and think very carefully about whether I want to engage with a .ml user.
And, I guess while we’re throwing out tips, I’ve really dug smaller communities (which was also the case with reddit.) I find browsing by scaled and all you find some neat ones full of interesting folks (or dullsters, as in one of my favourite communities, the dull mens club.)
And fully agree, people seem to have at least been polite with you!
Just a head’s up! Hope the rest of the fediverse treats you well.
Look, it takes time to change your views. Reddit is a right wing hell hole and your political beliefs reflect that.
This doesn’t wholly make you a bad person but, perhaps, try to learn more about why you’re getting such a strong reaction to your political opinions.
Your views on trans people for example are pretty out of date, there’s no legitimate reason to create a trans sporting league to make sport “safe”.
I don’t feel the need to change my views. I think the problem is that on reddit and Lemmy and most other places on the internet these days, there is only room for one valueset and depending where you are, you either have to agree with all the most extreme rightwing opinions or the most extreme leftwing opinions, else you are labeled whatever they see as evil.
I don’t feel the need to adopt the doctrine and join the church of the extreme right or the extreme left to be seen as a “wholly good” person.
Then you can just stop visiting these places? Idk why this is such a big issue for people. Just don’t go? It’s not that complicated
Pretty much this. People with center left views are attacked viscously and called fascists.
That and also being agnostic, which I am as well. Holy shit the hatred both religious and atheist people have for the agnostics. Religion and politics really pushed me far away from most ideologies where groupthink is required for you to be accepted and total intellectual obedience is a demand. I have seen a bit of everything at this point in my life and I don’t want to be anywhere near groups like that.
