No shit Sherlock. The smart voters were telling you MAGA was going to fuck everything up.
GPU from Temu when ?
There’s the MTT S80 (First PCIe Gen 5 GPU lol) which is the consumer grade version of Moore Thread’s enterprise GPUs like S4000, but the problem is that they trade off super cheap VRAM and PCIe bandwidth for low compute power compared to even antiquated stuff from Intel, AMD, and Nvidia.
They’re actually a great choice if you want to run AI/LLM stuff for really cheap, and Moore threads has their own CUDA knockoff called MUSA which iirc does have support in the various LLM backends available. Back when they released, it was going for something like $160 in China and ~$200-250 online. Could easily pool the VRAM, though finding a mobo+CPU combo with enough PCIe lanes to spare meant you’d most likely not be taking advantage of more than maybe 2 or 3 cards in one tensor parallel split.
China’s domestic processor production is still catching up, so even though they have access to high speed RAM and all the latest standards, they don’t have the cores to match.
Their last KX7000 x86 CPU was comparable to a skylake i5 or i7, but just with newer standards like DDR5 and PCIe gen 4. So they’re about 7 years behind based on that estimate.
I watched Gamers Nexus where they tested those Chinese made GPUs. They were absolutely shit, and weren’t even half of what they claimed.
Which one ? There is only tear down video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGe_fq68x-Q
Duh. Get out competed bozo
If america only had a guy in office who understands, and is good at, business, then we’d be okay. /s
I mean, that could have worked out, but instead they picked a reality TV star whose producers had to redecorate for the show because everything Trump builds looks gaudy and cheap and only knows how to make money by laundering theft and scams through failing businesses before writing them off and running.
They also had to hire someone to change Trump.
everything Trump builds looks gaudy and cheap
Precisely! This is nothing but insult to injury.
“We shouldn’t do business with China” is a bipartisan approach to foreign policy at this point. Like, cutting the Chinese economy off from high end processors and chipsets is a decision that goes back to the Bush 43 administration. And it’s worked, in so far as we’ve actively discouraged the largest chipmaker to sell to Chinese firms.
But the consequence has been a rapid proliferation of Chinese chipmakers and an explosion in Chinese tech R&D in the fields of chip fabrication and design. Turns out you can’t just cut 1.4B people out of a market forever. Certainly not 1.4B people with a sprawling university system and a massive home-grown tech industry hungry for microprocessors.
The maddening thing is that the anti WTO protesters said this would happen, then it did, and now that China is an economic power house the general policy on offer - rather than meet the situation we created on its own terms - send to be a return to mercantilism and a general retreat from the pax Americana.
I was there in the PNW protesting WTO and getting tear gassed as a college student. I believed that the WTO prioritized corporate profits over labor rights, and just allowed them to ship jobs overseas. I’m sad that I was right.
I was too young to be in the thick of it, but I participated. It wouldn’t be until a decade later that the pieces started to come together for me. It’s weird to grow up gradually realising you’re from not one but two of the wickedest countries in history.
What is your second country?
(っ˘<(ꏿ﹏ꏿ;) US/UK
Funny, I just noticed that sounds like “u suk”
The WTO was always a modern form of merchantilism, predicated on the theory that Wall Street financiers would functionally control the global stock of capital in the end.
The China Problem is, at its root, that too much capital is owned by Chinese nationals. We had similar problems with Japan and Korea in the 80s and 90s, and solved this by forcing them to devalue their currencies and take on loads of foreign debt - both private and public - while hooking themselves up to the Saudi well-head for their energy needs.
But the Seattle protesters never really got a head of steam behind them, because Americans did benefit from all these cheap imports more than they suffered. Like, its hard to talk to a guy making high-six figures in the Bay Area or at Microsoft or Apple campus that they’d have been better off working the textiles or lumber industries or making low-margin electronics.
This was a real J. Sakai “Read Settlers” moment. Very hard to convince colonial settlers to vote/organize against what was their generation’s own best interest. If anyone should have been protesting (and quite a few did but certainly not enough), it was folks in Bangladesh or Malaysia or the Philippines, since they were the ones who ended up eating most of the global industrial era shit sandwich.
Now we’re faced with Chinese economy that gets to both make a bunch of high value high demand components and domestically consume it, though. And that’s not nearly as good a deal as what the post-'08 US economy has to offer.
They make pretty good stuff, too, and it’s often more affordable. Had several Xiaomi products in the past, and so far I’m very pleased with my Huawei watch.
Yup. For all the making fun of chinesium (socially acceptable racism often when people talk about chinese products. Very clear when one scoffs at a taiwanese product as being trash because chinese but then walks it back when they learn it’s of taiwanese origin), in my life I’ve seen chinese phones, audio products, and cars go from scoffed at to being well regarded in enthusiast communities.
I saw it in other hobbies of mine. Not long ago people only talked about Japanese and German chef knives - Chinese knives must be trash. Then eventually people started to try out Chinese knives that weren’t just grocery store bargain stuff. Now progressively people are trying knives from Vietnam. Turns out people have been making knives in these countries for thousands of years. Not as bad but maybe worse is when a person I knew told me they were at first surprised to learn movies were made around the world rather than just being in hollywood, english language. Went from American and European made video game peripherals dominating to more and more chinese competitors like 8bitdo, aula, whatever.
In my lifetime, earlier if it said made in South Korea of made in Taiwan, the assumption was poor quality. Hyundai was scoffed at until like the mid 2010s in my experience. I’m told Japanese products were scoffed at as poor quality until like the end of the 70s and then you had major strikes and violence against Asian American people in the rust belt as anti-Japanese sentiment primarily in regards to competition for autoworkers and steel. Now Japanese made is fully regarded as high quality and the desire to compete in quality+value+parts+serviceability doesn’t seem to be of much interest to US or European automakers (that parts availability and serviceability is major)
I imagine it the same as decades back with Korean and Taiwanese made goods, you get you pay for. If you start on the premise that a $200 Chinese product should be as good or better than like a $500 American product, that’s a nonsense expectation to have. People will go from a $1200 iPhone and use a $200 Ulephone and determine that $800 phone from a company with a Chinese sounding name, name of their CEO, are trash unless it turns out that that Chinese sounding name company is headquartered in Taiwan or Singapore
China makes great stuff, we just don’t see it here often, the cheap junk with “Made in China” stamped on it is disposable garbage or scam knock-offs of a better product from somewhere else.
Not really true I don’t think. All the new Chinese models run too well on the Blackwell architecture.
Officially, sure. But we know for a fact massive shipments of Nvidia’s workstation graphics cards have been coming to China for a while. So good job making it slightly more expensive for Chinese companies, I guess?
Sure. Second hand with a commensurate markup.
But, at this point, is China importing more GPUs than it exports? Having a hard time finding the numbers. But I wouldn’t be surprised if Nvidia is facing the same problem in a couple of years that US car manufacturers are facing today - Chinese competitor products selling for 1/5th the price of the US models globally, while the US manufacturers complain about raw materials constraints and labor shortages that Chinese firms don’t grapple with.
Oh, that will definitely happen in the near future. At least one Chinese company is already making solid GPUs, but with terrible drivers. Once they work on the software side, they should be viable for everyday use. Probably no competition for a 5080 or 5090, but lower models at half the price.
Probably no competition for a 5080 or 5090
Don’t blink or you’ll miss it when it comes.
The upside of living in a fantasy world like trump does is that you can fuck around all you want and everybody else finds out. How long has trump been in Brazil?
No Chinese leather jackets for Jensen. :(
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I have no love for the Chinese Government, but boy do I hate American oligarchs more.
Poor fella. Put nvidia on food stamps I guess.
Bullshit. They are just funneling the sales through other countries to bypass export control. Oligarch just trying to make false numbers to pump up “potential” future market gains for stock manipulation.
A lot is based in Singapore. There was a story a few days ago about how China nixed the sale of a Singapore-based AI company to Meta.
It wasn’t really Singapore-based; the Chinese company relocated to Singapore to circumvent the Chinese regulations on sales to the US, that’s why they put a stop to it
Uh wait uh Mr Jacket Clown Man, wasn’t this kind of your plan?
You… you’re on the advisory panel.
For AI policy.
… ?
In the future, memory will cost nothing because we will just assume no human beings have any.
- Mr Jacket Clown Man, at some point, presumably.
Absolutelly, these are the consequences of Jensen Huang’s “strategy” and he’s just doing the usual trick of such inept high level managers when the mid and long-term consequences of their strategical ineptitude catch up with them of trying to distance himself from the consequences of his success in shaping American policy (by, lets be fair, just following other inept CEOs of other large Tech companies in the US).
IMHO the single biggest external visible marker that a CEO is strategically inept (i.e. incompetent at the core skill that differentiates mid from upper management) is how talkie-talkie (call it “salesmanship”, if you’re being generous) is their “solution” for everything.
I really hope NVIDIA and its shareholders suffer hard for giving the job of a strategist to a salesman.
This is what happens when there are zero reliable reporters to call bullshit, CEOs make shit up and no-one checks their work. It’s just ‘Jensen Huang says’.
Shocker, cut China off from US designed (not manufactured) chips and they make their own (capitalist competition, remember that old thing), still coming up to speed, but soon, and I’d like some DDR5 (or 6) SamA you dick.
The only thing at play for these pricks is the ‘CUDA moat’ (and the lack of effort from AMD’s RocM, also, you wouldn’t believe how amenable that [ironically] is to LLM coding), and a few hardware tricks (it’s just compute, catch up will happen), but if there’s someone outside your duopoly that dog won’t continue to hunt. Bad thing when a vasty majority of US GDP is AI BS. Shame you’ve got an idiot rampaging through the world markets for a relative pittance (but actual fortune) from insider trading. Who would have thought that’d go badly long term.
Back to weapons for you, and your military doesn’t know how to make a cheap (anything) drone.
Steve from GamersNexus is the only one I can recall that is actually exposing Jensen’s bullshit
Shame you’ve got an idiot rampaging through the world markets for a relative pittance (but actual fortune) from insider trading. Who would have thought that’d go badly long term.
Ironically, it may actually be Trump who brings about the rapid global adoption of EVs and renewable energy because of his stupid war with Iran and his tariffs. The rest of the world is fed up with having to rely on fossil fuels and they are dramatically ramping up both EV adoption as well as renewable energy.
I get the feeling that the US and Russia will be the last countries to fully adopt electric vehicles.
Meanwhile Trump is paying companies in the US to shutter wind turbine projects.
Yah, I think of it as Trump’s own goal.
Environmental progress through massive incompetence, ego and fraud. Actually rather a nice capstone to Pax Americana.
And American attitude is turning the world away from them. If China comes up with good chips, I think they have a huge market. People dont trust US technology now.
Huawei made excellent laptops until US shut them down. Its always the US. And they are always spreading fear about China spying, while having backdoors into American technology themselves.
I’m thinking that there is not a single American strategy to try and keep ahead of China which is not some form of bullshit, be it the “scare” of “Chinese backdoors in Tech” to try and convince other countries not to buy Chinese Tech or the desperate, desperate, oh so desperate attempt at turning into a Future-defining Tech an American-dominated subset of ML (that’s been called AI and treated as if it’s genuinelly intelligent) being propelled by America’s until recently highly successful Tech Investment environment, all of which failing because of that kind of ML’s inherent limitations and because said Tech Investment environment is nowadays mostly Fraud so overpromised and kept pushing as “the Future” well beyond the point it proved its inherent limits what’s de facto a failed prototype.
I have no doubt in my mind that America, right now, has failed to grab the Future and is already fading into irrelevance, and this not even a Trump thing even though he definitelly expedited it.
I just hope the corrupt crooks that pass for politicians in this side of the Atlantic (Europe) don’t drag us down with America.
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Lets not forget Moore’s law is dead. There are no more die shrinks to be had. We’re measuing gates with atoms.
The dog is doomed.
Chinese AI labs kinda seem like a plot twist in LLM evolution. Their models are quite capable now. They’re not at the levels of American labs’ flagship models yet, but the gap has been narrowing quite a lot.
When OpenAI and Anthropic models are only marginally better, but much pricier, then I would think they’ll gradually shed users (followed by investors).
Ironically, I could imagine a possibility of Nvidia “saving” American AI. If they can take the lead with Nemotron (in like a “post-OpenAI/Anthropic” future when open-source models dominate), then maybe they can survive on chip sales… Though they’d probably have to compete with Chinese chips at that point.
I don’t plan on forgiving Nvidia or Micron or anyone else who sold us out to get in on the debt transfer scam that is propping up the US economy, the bubble will burst, and I hope they all go down in flames with it.
Chinese Big Tech isn’t really known for innovation, they take existing tech and push to make it more efficient by just throwing people at the problem. It’s basically because they have a culture where critical thinking is not welcome. Makes it difficult to think outside the box. It’s why they still haven’t gotten an EUV machine out of the prototyping phase
Their only real innovative industry is their battery industry.
This is a racist fairy tale that will get you pwned.
This is the same racist bs we told ourselves about the Japanese and then the Koreans. Obviously only Americans have the Innovation Gene
I doubt it’s the “culture.” It’s just that they used to specialize in making things for the lowest cost possible. That’s changing bit by bit. DJI is best in class for example; no other consumer product comes close. They are also leading in many scientific fields.
Chinese Big Tech isn’t really known for innovation
Innovation under Pressure: China’s Semiconductor Industry at a Crossroads
For the first time among those watching these issues closely, the technological “choke point” strategy adopted by U.S. authorities across the late 2010s and early 2020s has now been shown to have failed, as Chinese government and R&D officials, as well as key state-backed and private sector firms, have been able to respond to the challenge forcefully and effectively. Leading the response are key policymakers: Vice Premier Ding Xuexiang, and the semiconductor team at the National Development and Reform Commission (NDRC), overseen by Vice Minister Xiangli Bin. A new AI-focused group at the NDRC overseen by Vice Minister Huang Ru is also increasingly important, as semiconductor and AI-related industry policies increasingly dovetail.
…
Leading domestic foundry SMIC, for example, has faced pressure to manufacture Huawei’s most advanced chip designs by stretching existing foreign equipment to its limits. This includes deep ultraviolet (DUV) lithography systems supplied by the Dutch firm ASML, which are being pushed beyond their intended capabilities, often resulting in low and inconsistent yields. The urgency stems from Huawei’s need for system-on-chip (SoC) processors for its consumer devices—especially smartphones, as well as for advanced AI chips in its Ascend 9XX series.
Remind me, again. Who else was experimenting with deep ultraviolet (DUV) lithography at scale prior to 2024? Who else was a front-runner in developing and deploying system-on-a-chip or AI embedding?
That’s before you get into the EV sector, SMRs for bulk shipping, or the Chinese airplane and aerospace development.
India, Korea, and Japan have all been in a scramble to keep up with the Chinese industrial programs. Meanwhile the US/EU don’t even seem to bother trying.
This is moronic and entirely divorced from the facts. Look at key players in the Chinese LLM space like Deepseek: it’s a tiny team of less than 200 people, building models that rival US tech firms with thousands. They make breakthroughs by pushing research first and intensive planning, rather than brute force. These are immensely innovative and creative teams with a great approach to R&D and engineering above all else
Well…those engineers were all training in the USA at MIT, Stanford, etc. but got the boot in 2025.
This wouldn’t really negate what I’m talking about in terms of their organizational advantages or the argument I’m making about them not just “throwing people” at the problem. But also, I don’t see any evidence that this is true; it seems their hiring strategy is to grab researchers that recently graduated from top Chinese universities as their talent
As far as I understand it is decently true, but not to the extent that they would be incapable of doing what they’re achieving. Either way you’re right, it doesn’t refute your claims in any way - those researchers are still doing work in China for Chinese companies, regardless of where they got their education.
