Never, he is a fictional figure and the world would be so much better if people start seeing religions for what they are
There’s a good chance he existed. The religious stuff you can say what you want but can’t confidently say he didn’t exsists.
If a historical person existed named “Jesus” who was also a vocal proponent of Jewish reform, existed that does not make the “Jesus” in the bible a real person. These two people would be mutually exclusive. Real people can’t preform magic. Real people are not born to virgins. Real people cannot be resurrected from the dead after days. There is no person who ever existed who could walk on water and turn water to wine. That “Jesus” is fiction through and through. The Bible is a story book. A book of fables. At best it’s historical fiction. Christian Jesus is a fantasy.
So what you’re saying is if Bob tells me (your name) has a flying tiger, and I later find out you don’t have a flying tiger… you no longer exists?
Hate religion all you want but don’t shit on history. In all likelihood there was a Jesus the story is based off of. Who was probably real. We have lots of non religious documents that mention him. The Quran mentions him. He probably existed as a person.
Like you exist as a person even though you don’t have a flying tiger.
Militant atheists are just as problematic as religious zealots.
Both annoying, pushy, and insisting you’re way is the only way. Everyone else is damned.
It’s the same playbook lol.
Militant atheists are just as problematic as religious zealots.
Lol
Trying to be the enlightened centrist and saying this. Show me the genocides being committed currently in the name of atheism.
I dont particularly care, I have religious friends but come on.
Joseph Stalin, Mao Zedong, Pol Pot, and Enver Hoxha
Pick up a book every once I a while.
Religion isn’t the root of all evil lol. People have been killed in the name of aithism, capitalism, science, expansion, gold, resources and yes sometimes religion. It’s not like religion is the big thing we go to war over.
We are at war with Iran right now and religion has nothing to do with it at all.
So i don’t really want to read for this subject but i like conversation. Not trying to facetious.
Did Stalin, Zedong, etc really kill because of atheistic principles? Or more politically?
Dude! You should’ve said that from the beginning! I’m a reasonable person too who just likes to talk!
Stalin killed arguabley for aithiesm. He definitely killed people for thier beliefs….
But I understand your question “did they kill for aithiesm (why can’t I spell that lol)”
No…. But if you acknowledge nopolean of France wasn’t killing people FOR aithiesm. You also have to admit no one was fighting the crusades to actually protect the holly land.
He’ll Donald trump and his followers say he was appointed by Jesus and practically worship him. Does that make the Iran conflict a holy war?
No religion doesn’t have anything to due with it.
I’ve been drinking so go easy and assume I meant things in good faith
So what you’re saying is if Bob tells me (your name) has a flying tiger, and I later find out you don’t have a flying tiger… you no longer exists?
They did not say someone named Jesus did not exist.
There’s a difference between believing “Joe who had a tiger and a bear and an elephant”, and assuming that there might have been 3 different Joe’s, one with a tiger, one with a bear and one with an elephant, each of them in a different period. Saying “Joe with 3 animals did not exist” does not imply that those Joe’s did not exist.
I’m not a historian but what I’ve heard (must have been on Alex O’Connor’s podcast) is that even some of the possible historical Jesuses (or “Jesusi” :D) had things going on that were not compatible with what the biblical Jesus was all about. (Such as being cult leader proclaiming that world will end in few years.)
He said Jesus is a fictional figure. He probably existed and yes there were more than one person with similar but that doesn’t change my argument.
If you say “this is Bob and he has a tiger” and I find out he does not have a tiger… he still exists as a person.
But you say “the stories about Bob don’t line up with any specific Bob”
Okay, that doesn’t stop Bob from being just because someone got a story wrong.
now you are just talking about some different guy named bob.
mario is based on a person, but mario is a fictional character
Mario is based on a plumber. Do plumbers exist?
So you say non religious stuff mention him then mention the Quran. Yep good argument there.
You’ll notice the Quran was said separately from the other stuff. I separated the two because it’s a religious book but not the Bible.
I can fairly confidently say he didn’t exist because half of his back story is stolen from older stories still. At best there was a guy (not named jesus, that is for sure) who started a cult and got some followers and got a lot of the older lore mixed in. Either he did this himself, or (more probably) writers later mixed in things to create “JFC”
Oh so believe he converted water to wine was born from a virgin mother and died and reerected three days later.
No I’m saying don’t ignore history. I’m not pushing any religion. Just saying the man probably existed .
probably existed
Or probably not, as most of his backstory is taken from older stories
A lot of stories about dinosaurs. We are confused about exactly how their feathers would look.
We know they existed tho.
It’s not probably not. It’s probably so. It’s just an argument about what exactly happened.
Do we know how the pyramids were built? No. But we know it wasn’t aliens.
There is confusion but not like people think.
Much like the pyramids we can assume Jesus existed. What exactly happened to which Jesus… that’s confusing but no one is denying there was a man. The pyramids are fact.
Oh god, another one of those…
Dinosaurs existed, so Jeebus must have existed too!
Much like the pyramids we can assume the easter bunny existed and continues to exist today.
NO WE CANNOT!
But we can see the eggs! The eggs, man!
…
Seriously, this is how you sound. You are defending that santa claus really exists because pyramids exist too.
One of those? Is there a lot of people who say dinosaurs existed so Jesus must exist? That would be a very strange argument for anyone to make.
Nice straw man argument. Have you named your straw man yet? I’ll call him Dylon . Right bring the Easter bunny in. Do you enjoy wrestling with the straw man argument you made up? Be careful its tick season lol
This is a semantic argument. I say that Jesus is not a Christian, because Christians are those who follow Christ.
I think that Jesus is a Jewish reformist.
I’d say jesus never was christian. His followers were a jewish sect. In 70 CE with the temple of jerusalem destroyed it evolved into gnostic christians, paulician christians and jewish christians.
gnostic faith has quite interesting ideas, it kind of makes a lot of sense too imo. its also a bit concerning about some things. I also heard it would have been the mainline christianity at some point but then something happened and it was branded heresy and we got the current one instead.
Have a look into cather and bogomilists. The “kristijani” and waldenser are also very interesting with their theologie!
those are indeed quite interesting. i’m also not impressed with the church for branding them heretics. the religious reasons provided seem more like excuses to cover secular reasons they wanted to silence these.
some of these seem quite apt for modern day too, as a resistance to how things are.
and ironically one could likely draw more people in by openly declaring yourself as a heretic if you wanted to revive these 😆
I grew up a fundamentalist Southern Baptist. In my late teens I started to question. One of the things that helped me drop Christianity was the thought process trying to answer: Who was the first Jew who died and went to hell because they didn’t accept Jesus as their saviour?
Because biblically, the Jews were the Chosen People, right? So if you were Jewish, you went to heaven. But according to Christians, you have to accept Jesus now.
So when did that happen, exactly? When was it that the last Jew died and went to heaven, and the next Jew died and went to hell?
For me it was hearing sermons on, and then reading for myself, the Book of Job.
Just awful shit.
I don’t know if I’m remembering this correctly. But I thought the church taught that everyone went below (don’t remember the exact name of the place) and between Jesus’s death and resurrection, he took the keys to heaven and he’ll and preached to those who were not alive to hear his message and then those who accepted him were saved.
Sort of. Before Jesus, the gates of heaven were closed for reasons. After he was crucified and paid the price for original sin he opened the gates of heaven and saved all the people in hell.
Depends on the christian branch you got taught in.
I used to be a roman catholic, They belief that with jesus’ death the primal sinn was absolved. If you accept jesus as the lord the savior son of god, you never will go to hell. Sinning puts you in purgatory, a hell-light kinda, for a duration to punish you for sinning. But after that you go to heaven regardless.
Before jesus everyone went to tell due to the first sinn commited by adam and eve. A few exceptions. Moses was promised heaven if he stayed faithful, but because of his doubt at the end, he got condemed to hell, but was allowed to see the sacret land before he died.
I’m pretty sure that’s mostly fanfiction
What is crazy to me is Jews don’t “believe” in Jesus Christ. Absolutely absurd to me they just ignore him. Just more proof that they probably did crucify him 😭
I don’t think he “converted” like that.
You know how the Queen of England never had a drivers license or passport because she’s the one who issues them and it would be silly to give yourself your own passport.
Jesus didn’t convert to Christianity . He was Christianity. It formed around him he didn’t convert.
He never converted to Christianity, he started a religious movement that eventually evolved and, long after his death, came to be named Christianity
That’s kind of like asking ‘when did Rogue become a rogue-like?’
He wasn’t. His death was the birth of it around 30-33CE. They were still considered of Jews of Judea but followed the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth, and that’s how it’s referenced in the bible until later revisions.
It was a sect of Judaism until re-written as Christianity.
Once he believed he was the son of god, I guess.
He is his best fan.
Why the eagles didn’t just take the ring to mordor?
answers we will never know because the author is dead
when did jesus become a christian?
in a world where dictionary meanings are peak: didn’t happen if you consider Jesus as “christ”
a “christ” cannot be a “christ-like”.
however, a lot of people have their own meaning of “christian” and could be a point of confusion. e.g., Paula White’s “christian” is an oldie-timey version of customs when Jesus wasn’t even born yet.
Unless he became one long after he died, never.
wait. if jesus is a christian is god a jew?
Actually yes, the Old Testament is basically the Torah or “the Jew book”.
When he read a self help book that said you have to believe in yourself. Guess he took it too far. :)
Esoterica channel on YouTube has a merkavah series you may find helpful. It’s about 10 episodes so I don’t recall exactly which addresses it, though.
