Many people on lemmy.ml deeply respect and admire authoritarian governments and organizations.

Iran, China, North Korea, Soviet Union…

The West has many flaws. But our flaws are nothing compared to these guys.

Iran hangs homosexuals. Iran shot 30,000 people in less than than 2 weeks. The Soviet Union had to build a fucking Iron wall to prevent people from escaping. The Soviets lied about the Chernobyl nuclear explosion. China censors the internet. China wants to eliminate Islam. North Korea is a totalitarian hellscape. Watching anime is a crime.

Why is lemmy.ml so fascinated with authoritarians?

  • AHemlocksLie@lemmy.zip
    1·
    7 hours ago

    The question isn’t if Russia is justified in invading Ukraine, but if Donetsk and Luhansk are entitled to self-determination and the ability to request aid from Russia and secede from Kiev.

    Almost. The real question is whether or not those acts were genuinely self-determined or if they were heavily corrupted by Russian influence. There’s evidence that Russia wanted to take action to annex parts of eastern Ukraine and had begun planning before the coup, as you like to call it. There’s evidence that they intervened militarily. There’s evidence they stoked separatist sentiment. There’s evidence that Russian nationals were in Ukraine trying to frame their actions as the will of the local populace. Russia themselves has managed to make that self-determination questionable at best.

    I already gave you evidence of Kiev killing civilians in the Donbass region:

    You’re right, I’m sorry. I got distracted in trying to go through the previous comment and must have gotten mixed up when I got back to it. I’ll review some of this in the morning, been at this too long for one day as is.

    Regarding the request for aid and the short timeline between then and Russia entering the civil war, as I said, Russia was already heavily involved post-2014

    Russia acted militarily in February of 2014, in the early days of what you describe as the west’s coup. They did not wait until after 2014 or even mid-2014.

    after the west coup’d Yanukovych using Banderite factions.

    Ah, yes, with all signs pointing towards the population moving away from Russia, it can only be a western-backed coup if the populace gets pissed enough at leadership cozying up to Russia, in direct opposition to that. I’ve never seen anyone provide any actual good evidence that it was a western coup, although I wouldn’t be surprised at all to find western nations encouraged things along. Probably not to the extent that Russia encouraged things in their favor in eastern Ukraine, though. Almost certainly not given Russia actually directly acted militarily, even if they lied about it for a while before coming clean. I see you put a link related to it in the list you provided here, so I’ll look at that tomorrow, too, but from what I’ve seen from the last few people who tried to convince me of this, the evidence could probably at best be very generously described as sparse.