Everybody knows about the backstory, there was a civil war, KMT fled to Taiwan creating two Chinas sort of, maybe, neither recognises the other, whole thing. ROC (Taiwan) ended up transitioning from military rule to a multi-party democracy, while the PRC (mainland China) didn’t do that (they did reform economically, “socialism with Chinese characteristics” and all that, but still a one-party state, not a multi-party democracy). The status quo right now is that Taiwan is in the grey area of statehood where they function pretty much independently but aren’t properly recognised, and both sides of the strait are feeling pretty tense right now.
Taiwan’s stance on the issue is that they would like to remain politically and economically independent of mainland China, retaining their multi-party democracy, political connections to its allies, economic trade connections, etc. Also, a majority of the people in Taiwan do not support reunification with China.
China’s stance on the issue is that Taiwan should be reunified with the mainland at all costs, ideally peacefully, but war is not ruled out. They argue that Taiwan was unfairly separated from the mainland by imperial powers in their “century of humiliation”. Strategically, taking Taiwan would be beneficial to China as they would have better control of the sea.
Is it even possible for both sides to agree to a peaceful solution? Personally, I can only see two ways this could go about that has the consent of both parties. One, a reformist leader takes power in the mainland and gives up on Taiwan, and the two exist as separate independent nations. Or two, the mainland gets a super-reformist leader that transitions the mainland to a multi-party democracy, and maybe then reunification could be on the table, with Taiwan keeping an autonomous status given the large cultural difference (similar to Hong Kong or Macau’s current status). Both options are, unfortunately, very unlikely to occur in the near future.
A third option (?) would be a pseudo-unification, where Taiwan becomes a recognised country, but there can be free movement of people between the mainland and Taiwan, free trade, that sort of stuff (sort of like the EU? Maybe?). Not sure if the PRC would accept that.
What are your thoughts on a peaceful solution to the crisis that both sides could agree on?
edit: Damn there are crazies in both ends of the arguments. I really don’t think giving Taiwan nukes would help solve the problem.
I think the current best solution, looking at the more reasonable and realistic comments, seems to be to maintain the status quo, at least until both sides of the strait are able to come into some sort of agreement (which seems to be worlds away right now given their current very opposing stances on the issue)
Let’s cut the bullshit: a lot of what’s being said here is just garden-variety racism dressed up as “concern for democracy.” The way some of you talk about mainland Chinese people(like we’re brainwashed bugs, NPCs, or extensions of the state) is dehumanizing. Full stop. You don’t speak this way about Americans living under mass surveillance, police violence, and corporate rule. You don’t speak this way about Europeans crushed by austerity. Somehow it’s only Chinese people who get stripped of agency.
IWe’re not a hive mind. We argue, complain, adapt, survive, organize families, build lives, same as anyone else. Reducing 1.4 billion people to propaganda victims just so you can feel morally superior is chauvinism. You can criticize the Chinese government without pretending the population is subhuman or that fuck x is legitimate criticism.
And this Hong Kong nostalgia is especially grotesque. You’re romanticizing a British colony run explicitly for banks and property tycoons. No elections for governors. Workers packed into coffin apartments. People waiting decades for public housing. Extreme inequality baked into law. But because it flew a Union Jack and spoke English, suddenly it becomes a paradise of “freedom”? That tells me everything about whose suffering you care about.
You also keep pretending Taiwan exists in some magical vacuum. It doesn’t. It’s the unresolved end of a civil war, frozen in place by US military power, and now functions as an unsinkable aircraft carrier pointed at the Chinese coast. Any major power on Earth would see that as an existential threat. The US would lose its mind if China parked missiles off California. But when China objects, suddenly it’s “authoritarian aggression.” (who remembers the Cuban missile crisis)
If you actually care about peace, stop parroting racist bullshit narratives. Stop flattening Chinese people into stereotypes. Stop acting like Western militarization of East Asia is neutral or benevolent. You don’t have to like the CPC. But if your worldview starts from “Chinese people are brainwashed and inferior,” even if you phrase it with better pr you’re a racist.
This thread is wild. All these “freedom and democracy” lovers apparently don’t know anything about China or Taiwan. Give Taiwan nukes? Insanity.
The way some of you talk about mainland Chinese people(like we’re brainwashed bugs, NPCs, or extensions of the state) is dehumanizing. Full stop. You don’t speak this way about Americans living under mass surveillance, police violence, and corporate rule.
I’ve definitely seen this type of rhetoric being directed at Americans more and more as our current president continues to fuck up everything.
Maybe, but it’s nowhere near the same scale or normalization. Say something positive about China(from infrastructure to poverty reduction)and it’s instantly “propaganda,” “brainwashed,” “you can’t trust anything from there.” Americans don’t get treated that way as a people. US media is taken as baseline reality despite massive corporate and state influence, while Chinese society unfortunately often gets dismissed wholesale as incapable of independent thought.
Hello friend, you seem to reasonable. Here’s a viewpoint from a Taiwanese. You will never see me say anything positive about China because you are an existential threat to our way of life. As individuals you all may be perfectly nice and lovely but as the bully next door we want nothing to do with you.
Out of curiosity, what specifically do you think would change in your daily life if Taiwan reintegrated and stopped functioning as a forward U.S. military platform? Concrete impacts like jobs, housing, healthcare, travel, civil rights as opposed to general terms like “freedom” that don’t really say much on their own would be preferred.
I would not be able to vote for my own leaders and representatives. Everything else (housing, healthcare, etc) can be fixed but once that is taken away we will have nothing.
Edit: I don’t agree that Taiwan is a vassal state or forward operating base for the Americans. Look at the US presence in Japan and Korea - if the Americans really viewed Taiwan (or if Taiwan viewed themselves being American lackeys) as being that important they would have sold us F-15s or other advanced weaponry like they did to Japan years ago and had actual bases here. I wish Taiwanese in general would show lesser favoritism to the Americans as a cultural and human rights sort of thing but when you have no real international relations you do what you must I suppose.
You do know the mainland does have voting, elections, and democracy right? It just operates differently from the vote every 3-6 years model. Representatives to local people’s congresses are directly elected, those bodies feed upward through provincial and national levels, and major legislation goes through consultation and revision processes before adoption. Participation is an ongoing process rather than a single national vote every few years. In my view, that is more substantive than simply choosing between parties every 3–6 years and then having limited influence afterward. There’s a reason long-running surveys (including work out of Harvard) have reported trust in the central government at over 90%. That level of confidence suggests many mainland citizens feel like me in that the system works well to represent us and our needs.
On the strategic question, Taiwan’s role is not defined by whether there are large permanent U.S. bases on the island. It sits at the center of what U.S. defense planners call the First Island Chain, a containment architecture stretching through Japan, Okinawa, Taiwan, and the Philippines. Because of its geography alone, Taiwan functions as a critical strategic node. The United States does not need to station F-15s there for the island to serve as a pressure point, intelligence platform, and potential staging area in a conflict scenario. Arms sales, training cooperation, and naval deployments in the surrounding waters reflect that structural reality. Whether one calls it a “forward base” or not, Taiwan occupies a central place in U.S. regional military planning. Americans call the island the unsinkable aircraft carrier for a reason.
I really don’t care if everyone in China has a government issued unicorn that farts rainbows and shits soft serve ice cream. We want nothing to do with you. Leave us alone. Why is this so fucking hard for you people to understand?
I like how you claim to me in a separate comment that you’re just a smol neutral and don’t really care if Taiwan unifies or not, but are now lecturing an actual Taiwanese person who told you that they do not want to be part of the PRC that actually, they should and the PRC is wonderful.
Such chauvinism.
As a Chinese American that was born in China and almost got terminated by the One Child Policy, I want to let you know I stand with democracy.
台湾加油，抵抗中共！✊
🤝🤝🤝
When does saying that “Taiwan should have the right to self-determination” require making any xenophobic or racist claims about Chinese people?
You tell me. Why do so many feel the need to use the Chinese civil war split to push racism, xenophobia and chauvinism against the Chinese? Saying Taiwan should be independent isn’t what I’m taking issue with even if I disagree with that statement personally. It’s the racism that you(general you not you specifically) accompany it with.
好啊，统一中国？没问题。。。
中华民国万岁！民主万岁！
消灭中共，光复中华！
😏
Real “the south will rise again!” energy here. The KMT was kicked out of the mainland precisely because the people of China supported the CPC, which is why today over 90% of Chinese citizens support their government. The mainland would be devastated by the collapse of socialism, with over 1 billion people being thrown into poverty. The White Terror wasn’t exactly “democratic,” when the KMT took over Taiwan and slaughtered thousands that resisted the new dictatorship.
Your Chinese is ok, but I’m here to practice English.
And I have to ask, do you actually believe this? Because this is an evil position.
If the CPC collapses, we already know what happens. It’s been proven before. Economic shock, mass unemployment, pensions wiped out, public assets sold off, and ordinary people paying the price while foreign interests move in. Just like they did to the USSR.
You’re basically cheering for over a billion people to be pushed into chaos and poverty. That’s a horrifying thing to advocate.
And honestly, I’m asking partly because too many Chinese Americans do hold views like this from the safety of the US, sometimes in hopes of fitting in. Rooting for suffering back home to score points is cynical and cruel.
I think they’re clearly baiting you rather than seriously calling for the PRC to collapse.
That’s not better
I think it’s about on par with people calling for the destruction of the USA.
Check his profile and posting history, he’s serious.
I’ve seen them around before, but I don’t think any Taiwanese person or any person of Taiwanese descent truly believes it’s possible to actually somehow destroy the PRC and replace it with the ROC. It’s just cathartism.
only thing they are hoping is the surveillance state collapses, and an actual people’s republic can be built in its place, and they can consider to return. but of course you can’t avoid painting the “traitor” in the worst light.
Nobody is racist. people are just fed up with the mindset of the kind of chinese citizen that is not only angrily parroting chinese political propaganda, but who even want other parts of the world to become like that, because they feel superior. and you know full well I’m not talking about communism here.
You’re very hateful for a third party. The collapse of the PRC that they seemingly “jokingly” called for would be devastating we’ve seen what happened to the USSR already. When did I call them a traitor that’s you putting words in my mouth. And to be able to look through this comment section and say there is no racism against Chinese people is genuinely astounding. Maybe it’s because you agree with the racists.
if the USSR didn’t fell, life would be very different where I live. by the looks of it, not better, that’s definite
You tell me. Why do so many feel the need to use the Chinese civil war split to push racism, xenophobia and chauvinism against the Chinese?
I don’t know. Am I doing that when I say that Taiwan should ideally be an independent state because that’s ultimately what they want?
No? I would question it being what they want as a whole I’m not sure it’s that clear an issue. But if that’s all you said then my comment obviously doesn’t apply to you. ???
Taiwan should ideally be an independent state because that’s ultimately what they want?
What they actually want, according to polls, is to maintain the status quo.
And you’d be foolish to think China’s rhetoric and threats doesn’t impact how people vote on that. In any case, “Reunification” is very much the least favourite choice from all of them.
And Taiwan is already a de facto independent state.
Ok, then the did you determine what the people of Taiwan actually want? White man mind reading?
I’ve said it all over this thread what I suspect the majority want to do. You’ve seen my answers on this repeatedly if you’re reading this thread.
Well, fortunately I have Westerners to tell me what the Taiwanese people want so I don’t have to worry about what they actually say.
And Taiwan is already a de facto independent state.
Right, which is why throwing the situation into chaos to force a non-issue is completely absurd.
I can literally read their polling on this and in a binary choice between official independence and “reunification”, the former wins out.
Right, which is why throwing the situation into chaos to force a non-issue is completely absurd.
I didn’t say anything should change. Just that they do not want to be incorporated into China.
China should accept Taiwans sovereignty as a separate Chinese country, and stop being such a little bitch. The end.
Lets be realistic. If the confederates ran away to Key West after the civil war, would the US accept a hostile state, backed by a hostile super-power, claiming to be the government of all of USA right off their coast?
Not sure why you’re copping some hate, but your analogy is pretty accurate.
Libs don’t actually care about the matter, they simply want to justify pre-existing positions, so anything that doesn’t support this feels hostile to them. In another comment thread I have someone who’s never been to Hong Kong asking me to provide citations about what HK is like.
What ‘pre-existing’ positions exactly?
In this case? <enemy of the west> bad. They don’t feel any need to learn about Taiwan or Xinjiang or HK or Tibet beyond its utility in proving this, and certainly don’t care how it might affect the actual people living there.
You can observe the same phenomenon with Russia; no matter the data, somehow its indicative of Russia bad and justification to increase hostile action, even at the expense of Russia’s victims.
I don’t think that HK, Xinjiang or Tibet are relevant here. My own position is that the Taiwanese don’t want to be part of the PRC. And that’s all that matters.
We have polling, it says the people of Taiwan overwhelmingly want staus quo. What they want doesn’t matter to you.
If the Confederates managed to hold out for 60 years, reformed, democratised and abandoned their past and wanted to renounce their claim to the USA and become their own independent state under their own identity - I would support them in that.
Albeit even then comparison isn’t quite right because Taiwan is closer to being the Union in this analogy, and the PRC the Confederates. It would be more like if the Union lost and fled to a safepost.
Taiwan is closer to being the Union in this analogy
mmyes, the defeated right-wing nationalist warlordists are the Union in this analogy. very good.
i would like to learn your secret: how do you become so informed on things you know nothing about?
mmyes, the defeated right-wing nationalist warlordists are the Union in this analogy. very good.
The comparison here is rooted who is the original compared to the two, not their ideologies. So in that sense, Taiwan would be the Union and Confederates would be the PRC.
Well Taiwan sees itself as part of mainland China, just not a part of the communist regime
Not really. Not many people in Taiwan really think that anymore. They’ve moved on.
How do you know?
Most people in Taiwan identify as Taiwanese over Chinese. Most people in Taiwan push for status-quo in polling, and of those that don’t, the second-most popular opinion is independence.
What, you truly think an island with the population of 23 million think its logistically possible for them to overcome an over a billion population difference and somehow take the mainland back under the banner of the ROC? The mainland also has nukes.
This is not what I meant. The taiwanese sees themselves as part of China, not an independent country. Just not a region that’s compatible with the communist party which is the issue here. Maintaining the status quo doesn’t contradict that.
If the CCP goes away the issue is gone.
This is not what I meant. The taiwanese sees themselves as part of China, not an independent country.
Officially, but most Taiwanese people now identify as Taiwanese. But all the same, you think they think its realistic they can somehow “take back” the mainland?
Just not a region that’s compatible with the communist party which is the issue here. Maintaining the status quo doesn’t contradict that.
I guess, but they’re also not deluded enough to think they can ever take it back.
If the CCP goes away the issue is gone.
Which they have no power to cause.
but most Taiwanese people now identify as Taiwanese
Again, how do you know? And why would that imply that they don’t believe that Taiwan and China are one entity?
I don’t understand why you bring up the possibility of Taiwan to remove the CCP or retake mainland China. My comment had nothing to do with that but with the opinion of the Taiwanese
Not anymore really, the Taiwanese government has abandoned claims to the mainland.
Abandoning claims is not the same as abandoning the view that they belong
Let me guess, you don’t think they have a legal claim to the island under UN law?
Are you implying UN law is even remotely relevant here? Or anywhere?
International law is what the CCP claims gives them the right. So no, I am not implying, I am stating it is relevant. Even if you disagree with the law, how do you expect this to be resolved peacefully without international law?
I don’t expect it to be resolved peacefully. Imperialism rarely is.
Edit: also, the UN is a joke. It’s just a tool the security council uses to bully other nations. It exists entirely for their benefit. This is like pointing to law under monarchy to support the king’s position. It’s totally circular.
Imperialism? How is this imperialism?
World power attempting to subordinate and subsume its neighbor by threats of invasion? How is it not imperialism?
Arguably the US’s defense of Taiwan is also imperialist but a more benign form than the CPC’s actions here. The Taiwanese people are just pawns in the struggle for global domination.
Because imperialism isn’t when invasion. You really should learn what words mean before you use them. Imperialism is a capitalist phenomena where high stage capitalist powers enforce(through force or other means) unequal exchange and super exploitation upon subordinate nations to extract super profits. The PRC has never done that.
Are you unaware of the history of Taiwan? How it became “independent”?
Please consult the graph:
Any reasoning based on historic belonging is entirely arbitrary. Ignoring an entire people’s factual autonomy and right to self-determination, safety, and security is nothing short of oppressive, toxic, and inhumane. Flaunting and threatening power, entitlement, military, and invasion is horrendous and violates international law, advocating for a violent, corrupt world instead of a cooperative multi-national rule of law and stability.
I watched a documentary recently about the history of China, the two opposing factions. It provided some interesting additional context and things I didn’t know about previously. I’ll refrain from mentioning specifics to keep this comment more focused and concise.
China hides its own atrocieties and history. Both parties were horrendous and sacrificed and murdered their own people. Neither is “the good guy”.
The solution is simple: Accept the status quo. That history played out as it did. China MUST accept Taiwan’s sovereignty.
Not accepting the status quo has a lot of negative consequences. The solution would be simple. Respect and cooperation instead of oppression, instability, uncertainty, and suffering.
Is that realistic? Doesn’t look like it. Possibly with a leadership change. Xi Jinping seemingly already lost some power, and his more aggressive politics have been weakened. Which should not make us think there’s no thread anymore.
Taiwan need to stop claiming they are the legitimate government of China.
China need to recognise that Taiwan isn’t part of China anymore.
Neither will happen.
Just maintain the status quo indefinitely. That’s what most people in Taiwan want, and the status quo has maintained peace for what, 70 years? It could last another 70 years if we let it.
China’s stance on the issue is that Taiwan should be reunified with the mainland at all costs
Is it? China has maintained it’s formal claim of Taiwan for decades but hasn’t actually moved on it, even when it’s foreign policy was much more extreme and interventionist. I don’t see a reason to think they intend to deviate from this policy.
Sure, they do saber-rattling. But this is generally in response to the US increasingly deviating from the policy of strategic ambiguity in recent years (which the news doesn’t generally report on as such). China right now is “winning the peace,” they are growing in power every year (economically, diplomatically, etc) while the US burns itself out getting involved in every military conflict it can find. They have no reason to jeopardize that by forcing the issue, though how they would respond to deviations from the status quo (like formal recognition) is hard to predict. Trying to call bluffs is often how wars happen.
Is there a reason why Taiwan needs formal recognition? Is there suddenly something wrong with the compromise that has kept the peace for so long? They are functionally independent already. It seems like it’s just a matter of pride, just words on a page. Materially, it would make no difference in their lives. Is that worth potentially starting WWIII over?
What I find terrifying is that most USians don’t seem to know or care about strategic ambiguity. They are so easily worked up into a war frenzy, and keep trying to act like some kind of superhero who never has to make compromises or accept imperfect solutions, who instantly understands any situation at first glance. Continuing to apply this mentality as the US declines is going to lead to more and more conflicts with reality, and I’m frankly terrified at what my countrymen might decide to do when faced with the collapse of their superhero fantasies.
There is more functional democracy in China with its one-party socialist state than there is in the US’s two-party capitalist democracy.
The idea that the number of parties impacts the people’s will and ability to enact change is complete fantasy celebrated by those who mindlessly fetishize democracy.
A good thing it’s not a direct choice between joining the USA or joining PRC for Taiwan then.
Someone who threatens war to acquire land is not the good guy. Fuck them.
Yes I realize this also references you know who as well.
Given human history, I think it references everyone. That’s not a dig, more acknowledgment that this isn’t actually new.
this also references you know who
No, I don’t know who. Is it Donald Trump? Vladimir Putin? Benjamin Netanyahu? Could be any of them.
Maybe it references all of them
I think it would be a lot easier for China to cooperate peacefully with countries it perceives within its sphere of influence if there wasn’t a hostile global military hegemon maintaining a bunch of military bases and naval fleets within striking distance.
Similarly, Taiwan would feel less inclined to call-on and defer to this military hegemon if China didn’t reject its right to self-determination.
It goes both ways.
And somehow I get downvoted and you don’t. How symmetric.
You probably got downvoted because you’re blaming Taiwan for leaning on the USA because the USA is not an existential threat to them, but China is.
How am I blaming Taiwan? They’re trying to survive like anyone else. What that looks like is dictated mostly by the US, which represents an existential threat to the rest of the world.
So you think the only reason that Taiwan has not merged into the PRC is because the USA forbids it?
Well if not for US interference blocking the final CPC offensive of the civil war the KMT would not have been safe on the island of Taiwan to institute the white terror and setup the holdout it is today. So in a way yes. Also without massive US investment the island would not have been able to modernise in the manner it did and this would likely lead the island to be less developed and more favourable to reunification. Major US backing of parties like the DPP who push hard for the idea of a separate Taiwanese culture that isn’t really that real and whitewashing of Japanese colonization of the island plays a role too. So in a big way yes but it’s more complicated than simply the US saying no.
I’m talking about now. Taiwan has been a democratic state now since the 1990s. US investing in them is bad now? So you’re basically complaining here that the USA (the west) invested and modernised Taiwan, and if they hadn’t done that and just left them to their own devices - they’d have been poor and impoverished and wanted to join China? I’m not sure how this looks good to you.
Major US backing of parties like the DPP who push hard for the idea of a separate Taiwanese culture that isn’t really that real
Seems to me that it doesn’t really matter how a culture or identity of a people emerges. If the majority of Taiwanese now feel different to mainlanders due to very different divergences since after the civil war, then that’s simply the reality of the situation.
You could also just say this about any country, really. The only reason that any country acquires a consensus of a set of values is due to investment, or government propaganda, or whatever and then use that as a means to just handwave away their self-determination.
The current governing party of Taiwan is for peaceful reintegration with mainland China. I think that’s the best path forward as well.
Sorry, the DPP? What does that mean in practice for citizens of Taiwan?
No, the KMT. The current governing parties are the KMT and the TPP. And the KMT is openly pro-mainland.
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That’s not exactly peaceful.
It definitionally is
Which would be very sad
Give the Taiwanese people Alabama and move them there. Then give China an empty island
An empty land with American military bases and soldiers? They’d just raze it, lol, and nothing of value would be lost. Or are you suggesting that America, who has historically seen Taiwan as their “unsinkable aircraft carrier” and has used the island to coerce China the same way it’s used Israel in the Middle East, should just freely concede the territory? I mean, ideally, sure, but I highly doubt it. I can be done, and probably will be, but not for free.
I’m obviously no expert, but it is the people who are of value, not the land. I see evacuation as the most straightforward way to avoid loss of life or the enslavement of a free people. Taiwan has been useful, but it’s not like we don’t have military bases near enough in the Philippines and Okinawa. Taking the Taiwanese people permanently out of the reach of CCP dominance would be the biggest blow we could land against China.
That sounds like some sort of crime against humanity
Alabama isn’t THAT bad.
Freedom for Taiwan and Hong Kong.
Tiber and Xinjiag too
Taiwan’s economy is like 98% reliant on China. China could drain Taiwan dry without ever setting foot on that island. Taiwan will negotiate a deal with Xi. They may like it or not.
Username checks out
We have actual data on Taiwanese economy but clearly you know better. 98% reliant? I trust that wholeheartedly!
China simply waits and maintains its current policy until pro-unification sentiment in Taiwan grows large enough. The balance of power in the Pacific is shifting away from the US and before this century is out they will no longer be able to offer security guarantees.
All polling indicates that pro-unification sentiment isn’t growing though. If China is waiting until they have consent of the Taiwanese, then why would security guarantees from the USA be relevant in the first place?
Most likely the thought is that without US security support, Taiwanese sentiment will shift towards China by default.
Now you’re getting it. Security guarantees from the US are NOT relevant. They are rhetorical cover for military build up inline with the US policy of encirclement. Absent from all of these discussions is that the US has military forces stationed 4 miles off the mainland because Taiwan is not one island it’s a province comprising an island chain. The CPC’s consistent policy is peaceful reunification via waiting except in the case where a foreign military uses the province to threaten the mainland.
After what China did to Hong Kong that’s never happening.
What China did to Hong Kong?
You mean freed them from a council imposed by the British, elected by the crown and large businesses?
Stole their autonomy, reduced social freedoms, and imprisoned activists creating an environment of fear and oppression.
What autonomy, they lived in a dictatorship of the bourgeoisie imposed by Britain.
What Social freedoms? The freedom to die under bridges or in coffin apartments or to live in literal tinder boxes?
What Social freedoms? The freedom to die under bridges or in coffin apartments or to live in literal tinder boxes?
Sorry, what, you depict pre-CCP controlled Hong Kong as if it was Somalia, or something.
I depict it as living in a colony of Britain, which it literally was.
And the coffin apartments, homelessness, and lack of fire safety are pretty well known. Have you been to Hong Kong? There’s massive inequality and some of the highest rent in the world because the government blocked the expansion of housing for decades.
I depict it as living in a colony of Britain, which it literally was.
And what did the people of Hong Kong want exactly?
And the coffin apartments, homelessness, and lack of fire safety are pretty well known.
These are things all “well known” in lots of highly populated urban cities. Is Hong Kong supposed to be unique here? Are you referring to any data that specifically identifies Hong Kong being uniquely ailed by the worst excesses of urban blight in comparison to other similar cities? What does this have to do with cracking down on pro-independence movements and activism in the city?
Anything’s possible when you make shit up
Peaceful or fair?
For peaceful, I think that China needs to make it so the world doesn’t depend on them for high end chip manufacturer, so the USA stops caring about them because they’re not a critical strategic national interest.
Then they just invade.The world isn’t doing shit about Gaza, the world is barely doing anything about Ukraine. I think the world sits by and watches it happen, if they’re not a critical strategic interest.
Are you suggesting that a Chinese invasion of Taiwan would be a peaceful act? What?
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Why are you conflating “peaceful” with either “act of peace” or “good”?
I explicitly said it wasn’t fair, eg that it’s unethical and I don’t support it.All I’m saying is that China has a clear path to stop the world from getting involved if they do decide to invade, and that China has had recently success taking over countries with little violence.
So your framing this as though I’m a Gretzky supporter is kinda wild.
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You have a crazy definition of “advocate”.
Apparently if you describe it, that is considered “advocacy” even if you explicitly denounce it.
It’s almost like you intentionally misunderstood my comment to make a point.
Would it be an act of peace? Absolutely not.
Would it be peace_ful_, if you ignore everything else I said in my comment? Absolutely not.But if OP is looking for the most peaceful (least bloodshed) way of “unifying” Taiwan and mainland China, then this is how. Remove Taiwan’s value to the west, propaganda tf outta the next gen, come in with overwhelming force as the world looks on and does nothing, install pro-china govt officials, ramp up propaganda, withdrawal blantant military force.
I explicitly said this was not fair eg it would be bad and unethical so this isn’t something I support obviously.
Lmao I can’t imagine having my head so far up my ass that I read a post asking about a peaceful reunification of China and Taiwan and immediately jump to ‘well, China could drive away Taiwan’s allies first so it would be less bloody when they invade’
Literally why I started off my comment talking about the difference between peaceful and fair.
Because many people would consider “peaceful” to mean “without physical violence” in this context - so I described what that could be. Something china is actually actively in the process of doing.
Idk how that means I have my head up my ass. One of us is using the wrong definition for that idiom.
